Does Tesla remove FSD from third-party dealers

[drtimhill]

mostly agree with you.......it's a grey area. I guess where it feels a little funny to me is if you buy fsd then you trade it in you don't get 10k value for the fsd(correct me if im wrong). so tesla will give you no value on the fsd or say 3k. Tesla buys the car back, removes fsd, sells the car to a new buyer and charges another 10k when(if) the new buyer wants fsd

But that's because it has no value to Tesla .. you can't sell songs you buy on iTunes back to Apple for the same reason. You can realize value when selling the car directly. At some point FSD will go out of beta and it will be interesting to see what premium you can get for cars with FSD versus without (and this will greatly alter the price Tesla can get away with charging).

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

It’s worth remembering a lot of the earlier FSD purchases were at much lower prices. It’s been as low as £1k ($1.5k) over the price of EAP, or about £4k in total, so half the price it now is, plus those cars may be due hardware upgrades. The original owner also had the use (albeit mainly just EAP features) for several years. If you look at the subscription model cost, 3 years of use is about $3k, the seller might also get $2k more than not having FSD when they sell, so they’ve had about $5k of “benefit” for their $5k outlay. Seems fair.

If you think as an option it’s expensive, what extra benefit do you really get for spending $4k on bigger alloys, $1500 on different colour seats etc when you come to sell? You’re lucky if you get 1/10th if that when you sell.

 

[drtimhill]

The original owner also had the use (albeit mainly just EAP features) for several years. If you look at the subscription model cost, 3 years of use is about $3k, the seller might also get $2k more than not having FSD when they sell, so they’ve had about $5k of “benefit” for their $5k outlay. Seems fair.

While I mostly agree, a significant number of people in the US have paid more than that based on the promise of FSD (city streets), which has yet to arrive outside of the limited beta. Some have waited 3+ years, which is kinda pushing it a bit. I think it's these people who feel that they perhaps deserve some kind of recognition from Tesla (such as a discount on FSD if they buy a new vehicle).

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

While I mostly agree, a significant number of people in the US have paid more than that based on the promise of FSD (city streets), which has yet to arrive outside of the limited beta. Some have waited 3+ years, which is kinda pushing it a bit. I think it's these people who feel that they perhaps deserve some kind of recognition from Tesla (such as a discount on FSD if they buy a new vehicle).

It’s a whole different debate on whether FSD is currently worth the money and whether Musk talked it up and is failing or at least taking much longer to deliver than he hoped. For someone who bought FSD a few years ago and are selling now the value they got will be lower than they might have expected over their period of ownership but that has nothing to do with what happens to the car after they give it back or sell it on.

 

[drtimhill]

It’s a whole different debate on whether FSD is currently worth the money and whether Musk talked it up and is failing or at least taking much longer to deliver than he hoped. For someone who bought FSD a few years ago and are selling now the value they got will be lower than they might have expected over their period of ownership but that has nothing to do with what happens to the car after they give it back or sell it on.

Agreed, which was my point .. these two discussions tend to get muddled together (which was why I was teasing them apart in earlier posts).

 

[sleepydoc]

Indeed, and these stories break down into several categories:

(A) The dealer represented the option as present when it was not (either accidentally or fraudulently).
(B) The dealer and/or buyer saw "Full Self-Driving Computer" on the dash display and interpreted this to mean the car had the FSD option.
(C) The dealer and/or buyer saw "FSD" or similar on the prior owners bill of sale (which they somehow obtained).
(D) The car did indeed have the FSD option present, but it was not mentioned on the bill of sale from Tesla (more below).

I don't count cases where people misunderstood capabilities and features, only cases where FSD was truly installed and later removed upon sale of the car when the car was not in Tesla's possession/ownership. This appears to be the case in more than one instance

What evidence do you have that it is not in these threads? I read through them and I saw no proof of dealer misrepresentation. I did see some people hypothesizing that the FSD was supposed to be removed but the removal hadn't been completed but no actual evidence. That being the case, the only 'proof' appears to be a belief that Tesla is acting legally and ethically.