Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Do you have a link for it?
I remember watching Bjørn Nyland when getting his new Model 3 Performance and decided to swap 19" wheels instead.
Model 3 with (winter) 19" Gripmax tires
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Downsides of Performance vs Long Range?
- Thread starter Horizonjob
- Start date
I remember watching Bjørn Nyland when getting his new Model 3 Performance and decided to swap 19" wheels instead.
The youtube video shows 3rd party 19" wheels fitting, which isn't surprising. But the Tesla 19" do not. Noticed that he's putting on black 19" wheels, and black 19" wheels are not an option on any model 3.
My source is the service manager at Rocklin Tesla. He says the front fits, but the rear has a bit extra for the emergency brake and it doesn't clear. I've seen on the forums a mention of filing a bit off the brake, apparently one corner needs a bit of filing and they really don't think it should matter.
For 3rd party wheels there are many options, like:
19
19
So some 19" wheels fit, just not Tesla's, as far as I can tell. I did find some speculation that Tesla revised the 19" wheels to fit, which is possible. Tesla is also shipping a 19" wheel for the performance in China, but that wheel is not available in the US, at least last I heard.
TimothyHW3
Active Member
I am surprised the rep told you that. They are trying to oversell the P models normally.
Anyways, they were right, unless you go on a track there is no point of having the P. Sure, the acc is insane, but a part from bragging to your friends about it you will never get to experience it that much.
You have only downsides with P. Lower, stiffer suspension, bigger wheels means every bump is felt(test it on a rough tarmack), consumption range is at least 20% lower than AWD and 30% lower than RWD, and of course the price.
If you don't have 10,000$ lying around and don't have a YouTube channel with 2 Million subscribers to show off or test the car, go forLong range RWD.
It is an off-menu option and you will save another 5000k from the AWD on the website, a total 15k lower than P
Anyways, they were right, unless you go on a track there is no point of having the P. Sure, the acc is insane, but a part from bragging to your friends about it you will never get to experience it that much.
You have only downsides with P. Lower, stiffer suspension, bigger wheels means every bump is felt(test it on a rough tarmack), consumption range is at least 20% lower than AWD and 30% lower than RWD, and of course the price.
If you don't have 10,000$ lying around and don't have a YouTube channel with 2 Million subscribers to show off or test the car, go forLong range RWD.
It is an off-menu option and you will save another 5000k from the AWD on the website, a total 15k lower than P
I got aftermarket VS forged wheels from a forum vendor here (Josh @ getyourwheels.com) They ended up about 8 lbs less per corner.
UngaBunga1989
Member
Your statement about range is incorrect. My father has the AWD and I have the P. On similar trips at this time of year I generally experience between 240 and 250 Wh/mi on my P and between 235 and 240 Wh/mi on his AWD -- nowhere near a 20% difference. There seems to be this myth out there that the 20" tires make for some radically difference efficiency. This is just not true. The main differentiator IME is driving style. The P BEGS to be driven hard and, if you do, your efficiency will suffer accordingly.
With regards to your recommendation about the RWD. No questions that it is far more efficient than either the AWD or P -- you are only driving one motor rather than two, after all. BUT, if you live somewhere that it snows? I would strongly advocate for not worrying about efficiency and getting a car that you can safely use in Winter -- either an AWD or P. The four wheel drive makes a huge difference -- also IME as a neighbor has one and he has driven both my P (with 20" wheels and Michelin AS/3+ tires) and his RWD and said if he had to do it over again he would go with the AWD (or P) based on the difference in Winter driving ability alone.
Both of my statements are based 100% on experience, not conjecture or theory.
Finally, if you are not a serious driving enthusiast and are just looking for a great all-around car? The AWD is the ticket. It is $10k cheaper and if you have never driven a serious performance car it will already likely be the fastest car you have ever driven! I chose the P because I have owned some killer performance cars and loved the idea of having a car that performed as well as them AND could be my daily driver. My P3D is like the love-child of my previous Ferrari F430 and 2016 Chevy Volt!
pdx3181
Member
I agonized over the P3D vs. AWD decision. Ultimately, having owned a Tesla Model X and a BMW M3 as my last two cars, I wanted the thrill of acceleration. Probably not worth $10k in the long run to most users. But it is to me!
UngaBunga1989
Member
TimothyHW3
Active Member
And why do you think Imine are not?! I have test driven both cars over a period of time and I can def tell you there is at least 10% and if you push it 20% difference. Actually, your statement regarding the range is wrong. How do you calculate the range? Based on what the GOM is telling you?! This is not a precise method of measurement, because if the battery is not properly balanced GOM will give you irrelevant data. The only way to properly measure the difference is to drive both cars at the same conditions, not similar, and drive them down to at least 5%. Or at least look at the consumption during the trip.
And no, the 20" P is NOT more efficient or having more range than AWD 19 and that is a basic, physical fact. And yes, if you hammer the P, the difference will be in the 30%, but will never go below 10%. You can also put the P in chill mode and it drives like an AWD. The same goes for the AWD, if you hammer it and drive the P in chill, the P will go further, which is what you probably did.
Let me also guess about your neighbor, he has the all season tires surely. If you have proper winter tires with a high profile(new) you will have no issues. Yes, once the tires go down to about 5-6mm then the grip will be worse, but for 90% of the case you will be fine.
But if you really live in a hilly snowy place, sure, AWD is a better choice. But if you plan to take 1 ski trip during the winter, save the money and buy better winter tires with the savings from electricity and the 5000$ price difference.
1 more motor to break and less range albeit not that much compared to RWD,plus the 5000$ added.
Besides that, the rear motor on the AWD is less powerful than the RWD by 30hp. Which means that once you get off the start, the RWD is more powerful, as the AWD basically uses the rear motor most of the time?
dhrivnak
Active Member
I am on the frugal side. Even the RWD is crazy fast compared to any car I ever had, excepting the Roadster. And I LOVE the efficiency. Higher efficiency also means faster and cheaper charging. The 18” tires are less expensive, better on potholes and last longer. Now if you will track the car that is a completely different story.
UngaBunga1989
Member
You have test driven them over a period of time, really, how so? I did not know that Tesla offered such a program. I am basing my statements on 4,000+ miles driving my P and roughly 500 miles driving an AWD...so I do think that my experiences are statistically relevant -- even if only using the efficiency calculations right from the car. And to be clear, my personal experience has been that there is roughly a 5% difference in range if you drive both cars the same way.
I also did not state that the 20" wheels are more efficient, only that people make the difference between them and the 19" wheels out to be a bigger factor than they are. Please reread my statement.
Finally, I completely agree with your last statement -- if you live somewhere where it rarely snows, or perhaps snows once a year? RWD is a better bet (at least from an efficiency standpoint). But in places like the NE or Midwest United States where we can have snow on the ground for weeks at a time I believe folks would be better served with an AWD car...at least from a practicality standpoint.
UngaBunga1989
Member
Zero question that for efficiency the RWD rocks AND is still plenty fast!
Mrcarcrazy
In need of a shrinking gun to zap a plaid with.
FWIW when I tried to order a long range RWD on 5/25/19 it was only 2k cheaper than the LR AWD per the rep at Tesla.
Every car I've owned in my 50 years has been faster than the car before it.
I didn't consider anything but the P3D.
I didn't consider anything but the P3D.
Weird, because it was $4K cheaper on 5/25 according to our sales rep. I decided to go with AWD anyway....
So you are pretty happy? Which one did you get? I looked and it looks like they have 12 or so for the model 3. They don't seem to mention specific car compatibility on their web site. My goal is 19", generally approximately as durable as the stock 19" model 3 wheels, and of course compatible with the model 3 performance.
Ignore those who cheaped out and validating their decisions by trying to convince someone to make the same regretful choices. 
I’ve seen plenty of people here trade in their 3LR for 3P and NONE of them regretted it.
Even when Tesla comes out with HW5 cars 10 years from now, 3.3 seconds is still pretty fast.
1 second when you are under 5 is FAST and worth 10K.
I own a 3SR and a 3P.
I hold the 3SR for 6 seconds, I hit the speed limit inside the city.
I hold the 3P for 6 seconds, I go to jail, get my license taken away and be uninsurable for the foreseeable future.
I’ve seen plenty of people here trade in their 3LR for 3P and NONE of them regretted it.
Even when Tesla comes out with HW5 cars 10 years from now, 3.3 seconds is still pretty fast.
1 second when you are under 5 is FAST and worth 10K.
I own a 3SR and a 3P.
I hold the 3SR for 6 seconds, I hit the speed limit inside the city.
I hold the 3P for 6 seconds, I go to jail, get my license taken away and be uninsurable for the foreseeable future.
Mrcarcrazy
In need of a shrinking gun to zap a plaid with.
I even had the guy double check. He swore it was only 2k. I didn’t believe it at first.
That’s super strange. I decided to get the P to prevent regrets later down the road.
I got the brushed titanium VS-06 in 19x8.5" with a 30mm offset. They are actually made to order to your exact specs. The hub was perfect (snug but not tight). Sometimes aftermarket wheels will be a little sloppy here. Yes. I'm very happy with my choice.
TimothyHW3
Active Member
In Europe you can get a Testdrive overnight for the weekend. Basically you take the car on Sat and return it by Monday noon. We did a 950km road trip with a P. We also rented out an AWD once for a 700km stretch and some city driving.
The P was always hungrier, no matter how I drove it. The difference between P and RWD is at least 20% constant and this is what fellow forum members are saying. There is one guy on the european forum who owns both cars and does regular tests -22% difference is what he calculates. The difference between AWD and P is at least 10% and if you get the 18" with aero somewhere around 15%%.
As for cheaping out, it is not a matter of money but of practicallity to me. And I also drive in Germany a lot where you can easily use the advantage of P. You guys will never need or make any use of the performance.
When I drove the P I had to switch to chill, because I was annoyed by the pedal in the city. And I am coming from a 3 series with 8 gear automatic that can also do 5+ secs. If you have the money go for it, but you will never use it.
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