Dragy times for Plaid and LR

[DayTrippin]

Is that on pump Gauss?

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Brooks says 1100+ wheel HP on IG...

View attachment 757211

Yup. As I've said earlier though, it's literally impossible for the car to make 1100 hp at the battery and then 1100 at the wheels. That's 100% efficiency; a physical impossibility.
However, in the last part of the video, it shows 1067 hp, which sounds more accurate. It would still mean unmatched drivetrain efficiency of 95%, which still may be a little too high. I don’t know.. Also, the curve explains why we aren't seeing 155 mph in the 1/4; this curve (which to be fair is only one example), is not the same curve for 200 mph as they showed. So when they unlock 200 mph and give us that slightly flatter curve, we'll see higher trap speeds. Can't wait!

 

[Drew-MS]

Finally made it through all 58 pages! Thanks for the entertainment while I eagerly anticipate my Plaid delivery (hopefully in February).

Has anyone seen any results using the forged 19" Martian MW05 wheels on a Plaid yet? 19

At 22.5 lbs and 23.5 lbs, they're claiming 30% weight reduction vs the stock 19" wheels, so I'm hoping to see some slight performance improvements when I get mine installed, even though I'll be using the stock Pirelli tires which aren't as favoured here vs the PS4Ss. I don't see any weight specs on the Signature Wheels website, so I'm curious what the weight difference is between those and the Martians.

One thing I like about the Martians is that they're the exact same specs as the stock Tempest wheels, so I can swap my stock tires onto them, plus the Tesla centre caps fit for a more stock look.

Unfortunately, these will be my summer wheels, so I won't be able to test them until April.

I like the Martian wheels a lot but I'd prefer the offset to be a little more aggressive than the stock set-up. Something like +25F +30R (or even +30 front and rear) would look nice IMO. My stock 19" wheels with the +40F +45R offset look pretty good but they aren't quite flush. I'd prefer 10-15mm more.

 

[jebinc]

Finally made it through all 58 pages! Thanks for the entertainment while I eagerly anticipate my Plaid delivery (hopefully in February).

Has anyone seen any results using the forged 19" Martian MW05 wheels on a Plaid yet? 19

At 22.5 lbs and 23.5 lbs, they're claiming 30% weight reduction vs the stock 19" wheels, so I'm hoping to see some slight performance improvements when I get mine installed, even though I'll be using the stock Pirelli tires which aren't as favoured here vs the PS4Ss. I don't see any weight specs on the Signature Wheels website, so I'm curious what the weight difference is between those and the Martians.

One thing I like about the Martians is that they're the exact same specs as the stock Tempest wheels, so I can swap my stock tires onto them, plus the Tesla centre caps fit for a more stock look.

Unfortunately, these will be my summer wheels, so I won't be able to test them until April.

The Signature wheels are lighter than the Martians. For the 19” SV104s they run 20.6 and 21.6 lbs. Yeah, I have them on order with Jamie Sig.

@SignatureSales @SignatureWheel

 

[DayTrippin]

The Signature wheels are lighter than the Martians. For the 19” SV104s they run 20.6 and 21.6 lbs. Yeah, I have them on order with Jamie Sig.

I have to say I am sort of torn between the Signatures and Martians. I went with Martians on my MY and they look awesome and have performed well. While not quite as light as the Sig's, I actually like the look of them better on my MY. It was a huge weight savings over stock either way I would have gone. It really makes the car feel lighter on its feet and the ride quality is improved. Didn't notice any measurable improvement though in 0-60 times (or 1/4).

What I do like though with Signature is all the wheel offsets you can have since it is custom. I am seriously leaning toward going to a square setup so I can rotate my tires. The wider tire contact patch in the rear is likely moot for my MY LR since it isn't trying to lay down as much power as a Plaid. By going with a narrower rear rim, I'll save a bit of weight too.

 

[jebinc]

I have to say I am sort of torn between the Signatures and Martians. I went with Martians on my MY and they look awesome and have performed well. While not quite as light as the Sig's, I actually like the look of them better on my MY. It was a huge weight savings over stock either way I would have gone. It really makes the car feel lighter on its feet and the ride quality is improved. Didn't notice any measurable improvement though in 0-60 times (or 1/4).

What I do like though with Signature is all the wheel offsets you can have since it is custom. I am seriously leaning toward going to a square setup so I can rotate my tires. The wider tire contact patch in the rear is likely moot for my MY LR since it isn't trying to lay down as much power as a Plaid. By going with a narrower rear rim, I'll save a bit of weight too.

Sounds like a great plan! I was going to do the same on the Plaid, but decided against, due to rear wheel power.

 

[Drew-MS]

I have to say I am sort of torn between the Signatures and Martians. I went with Martians on my MY and they look awesome and have performed well. While not quite as light as the Sig's, I actually like the look of them better on my MY. It was a huge weight savings over stock either way I would have gone. It really makes the car feel lighter on its feet and the ride quality is improved. Didn't notice any measurable improvement though in 0-60 times (or 1/4).

What I do like though with Signature is all the wheel offsets you can have since it is custom. I am seriously leaning toward going to a square setup so I can rotate my tires. The wider tire contact patch in the rear is likely moot for my MY LR since it isn't trying to lay down as much power as a Plaid. By going with a narrower rear rim, I'll save a bit of weight too.

The reason my car still has the stock 19s is because I can't decide which wheels: Signature, T Sportline, BC Forged. Someone recently posted pics of their refresh with BC Forged wheels which I also like. If I go with Martian wheels, then I'd probably end up wanting to use 10-15mm spacers so I'd rather just get wheels with more aggressive offsets / custom offsets. It's cold now so I'd like my car to be all set (wheels, brakes, etc) by the end of March.
I'm also considering a 19x10" or 20x10 square set-up with 275-40-19s or 275-35-20s all around but Idk yet.

 

[DayTrippin]

Thanks for mentioning the BC Forged, I'll have to take a look at them. I'll probably stick with 19's whichever way I go. Lighter weight combo and a lot of tire choices. At this point I've decided 100% to go square. Just need to pick out the wheels I want. If the damn EDD was more stable I would order them when I make a final decision given some of the lead times.

 

[FastMatt]

That I would like to see is the Power numbers from that Dyno pull for the front and the rear. The Dyno should be able to show that because it's not a "linked" roller. I got a feeling the front motor is putting out close to the full 400 hp and the rears are limited.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

That I would like to see is the Power numbers from that Dyno pull for the front and the rear. The Dyno should be able to show that because it's not a "linked" roller. I got a feeling the front motor is putting out close to the full 400 hp and the rears are limited.

It doesn't really make sense to put more power in the front, as that hurts acceleration. When the Plaid accelerates, it puts ~70% of its weight on the rear axle, and 30% on the front when it transfers weight. This means there is much less traction for the front motor to utilize. So if anything, the front motor would be the limited motor, while the rears are a little less limited.
However, I imagine all 3 DUs are making around 340 hp, as distributing power evenly likely makes the most sense for balance and traction.

 

[FastMatt]

It doesn't really make sense to put more power in the front, as that hurts acceleration. When the Plaid accelerates, it puts ~70% of its weight on the rear axle, and 30% on the front when it transfers weight. This means there is much less traction for the front motor to utilize. So if anything, the front motor would be the limited motor, while the rears are a little less limited.
However, I imagine all 3 DUs are making around 340 hp, as distributing power evenly likely makes the most sense for balance and traction.

Well ya but the front only has one motor, the rear has 2. So if the front they had the motor turned up to the "full" 400 and each rear at 350 that's still 700 to the rear and 400 to the front, 1100 total... When My plaid looses traction at the track it always seems to be the front spinning, right font to be exact. I think its a combination of weight transfer removing weight from the front and the lack of a LSD in the front Dif. The rear seems to hook well with the weight transferring to the rear and one motor powering each tire with no differential. Also larger tires In the rear.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Well ya but the front only has one motor, the rear has 2. So if the front they had the motor turned up to the "full" 400 and each rear at 350 that's still 700 to the rear and 400 to the front, 1100 total...

Sure, but 1) the car's motors aren't making 1100 combined, as it's more like 1020 to 1060 at the motor shafts.
(See these posts to understand where I'm coming from here. 1100 at the hubs is physically impossible).

Dragy times for Plaid and LR

Curious as to why. Is it a traction limitation? The 19's should be quite a bit lighter which should help in general with acceleration assuming traction isn't the limiting factor. I am curious to see if that holds up on the LR as well.

teslamotorsclub.com

Dragy times for Plaid and LR

Curious as to why. Is it a traction limitation? The 19's should be quite a bit lighter which should help in general with acceleration assuming traction isn't the limiting factor. I am curious to see if that holds up on the LR as well.

teslamotorsclub.com

Dragy times for Plaid and LR

Is that on pump Gauss?

teslamotorsclub.com

And 2), again it still would make no sense to do this, as anytime the car would accelerate, that extra power in the front wouldn't be worth anything.

 

[FastMatt]

Sure, but 1) the car's motors aren't making 1100 combined, as it's more like 1020 to 1060 at the motor shafts.
(See these posts to understand where I'm coming from here. 1100 at the hubs is physically impossible).

I was just using that as a example, could be 380 front, 320 out of each rear for a 1020 total... And I would not say that 1100 is "physically impossible" when a Tesla engineer has already stated that the motors are "400 HP each". Tesla is just not pushing them to the max to make 1020hp if that's the true output. I agree that is is problematic to try and measure EV power on a Dyno designed to measure power on ICE cars.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

I was just using that as a example, could be 380 front, 320 out of each rear for a 1020 total... And I would not say that 1100 is "physically impossible" when a Tesla engineer has already stated that the motors are "400 HP each". Tesla is just not pushing them to the max to make 1020hp if that's the true output. I agree that is is problematic to try and measure EV power on a Dyno designed to measure power on ICE cars.

It is physically impossible as of right now when the battery is making 1100 hp as measured by the CANbus.
Not possible to generate energy without generating heat, therefore there are always losses.
Yeah absolutely the motors have 1200 in them. I've heard as much as 1500 hp is possible. However in order to see that power, the battery would have to be making 1250 to 1300 hp for that to happen at the motors. Here's a really helpful post regarding battery to wheel losses:Model S Plaid Battery Details, sourced from EPA Docs, Vehicle Observations, & Supercharging/Charging data

Regarding your power split theory, it is absolutely possible. But from the CANbus, it looks like all 3 motors are receiving basically equal power. FYI, the CANbus is the on board communication system that all the computers in the car relay information. This is info that is used in many different ways, but a big purpose is to determine if things are safe, and if everything is working properly. So this information has to be accurate, and thus the battery horsepower number is the most accurate number you will get, as it is straight from the car itself.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Also @FastMatt and anyone else interested, the real number the car put down was 1067.3 hp. The dyno auto-corrects for weather and other factors that apply only to ICEs. Since EVs are unaffected by these conditions, the uncorrected values are the real numbers. Check it out starting at 1:17:

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Also @FastMatt and anyone else interested, the real number the car put down was 1067.3 hp. The dyno auto-corrects for weather and other factors that apply only to ICEs. Since EVs are unaffected by these conditions, the uncorrected values are the real numbers. Check it out starting at 1:17:

View attachment 758049

These numbers show unparalleled drivetrain efficiency!!! SO PUMPED! Figure maybe 1020 to 1055 at the wheels after figuring rolling resistance, and that's 93% to 95% drivetrain efficiency!!!!!!! HOLY CRAP!!!!

 

[FastMatt]

These numbers show unparalleled drivetrain efficiency!!! SO PUMPED! Figure maybe 1020 to 1055 at the wheels after figuring rolling resistance, and that's 93% to 95% drivetrain efficiency!!!!!!! HOLY CRAP!!!!

Well there is no transmission, no drive shaft, no flywheel/flexplate, no clutch/TQ converter to gobble up power spinning.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Well there is no transmission, no drive shaft, no flywheel/flexplate, no clutch/TQ converter to gobble up power spinning.

Nope. But this is unbelievable even by EV standards. The average EV does around 90% from the battery to the motors. This is insanity! Tesla FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SBDPlaid]

I have 21” BC Forged wheels coming for my Plaid. Stock widths but aggressive offsets (+23front/+28rear). Ordered from Modbargains
I looked at Martian but passed since they’re standard offsets and no 21” option

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Well if anyone ever had any question on whether the MS DM is faster than a Nissan GTR, here you go!