Mysta
Former Vendor
I was looking at an xc40 before and I loved a lot about it, it's supposed to be one of their first EV, so may be worth considering.
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Drove Audi e-tron Today
- Thread starter NWPILOT
- Start date
Of course there are Tesla competitors. There always have been and always will be. But instead of taking sales away from Tesla, at this stage I'd say that these competitors are expanding the size of the overall EV market. At only a few percent of market share, there's plenty of room for everyone. Remember, Elon's goal wasn't so much to just sell lots of EVs, but to instead accelerate the rate at which the world adopts safe and clean energy. Tesla Motors is simply one way to accomplish that.
caskater47
Member
Good point. The only company taking sales away from Tesla is Tesla.
Brian's ReX
Member
Ya mean, ya can't just drop a battery pack from an X into this and get 295 miles of range?????
Dag-Nabbit! Attachments
Brian's ReX
Member
Well I’ve got a different reason. Already that I don’t like the car, but worst of all, in Quebec, etron means poop.
Yup. My impressions from a brief spin in it also. It is a big, fat lumbering load of a vehicle, and I doubt that virtually a single comparison driver will prefer its driving dynamics to a Model 3. Then again, its appeal to Audiphiles (not to be confused with Audiophiles!) is stylistic - it does have a really nice interior. The ICE-centric press, which has been, in some quarters, touting the Etron and the upcoming sister sedan as "for-sure" Tesla killers must be smoking something good!
Sounds like you might be a good candidate for the Model Y when it comes out. I can't quite get together the $50,000 +/- for a new Model 3 right now, but in a year or so, I'll be watching closely for M3s coming on the resale market as early adopters decide to go for the MY.
Had my X at ~135 mph for a stretch in the California desert last week. It drove pretty well, but the steering and suspension felt a tad loose. (Suspension is set to LOW.) This is in comparison to my other ICE cars, a BMW X3 and MB E550. Those have the "sport mode" function which tightens everything up at speed. I know Tesla adjusts height, but it would be ice if steering and suspension tightened u at speed... Still pretty damn fun to drive...
aagosh
Member
You could change the steering mode to Sport in X. This will feel much more stable at high speeds.
Beta V
Author, Dad, Mentor, Technology Critic
I've driven "tanks" (other SUVs and crossovers) for about 20 years. The Model X is a dream compared to them. It has far more interior space and FAR better performance. Problems? Sure. The problem with the M3 and MS is that they are REALLY tough for me to get into. I'm a big fella. 6' 2" 260 soaking wet and with a pooched back, hard for me to fold myself down into the seat. The MX is far easier to enter and exit.
It's (M3) actually more like a 2 ton sedan, but one that drives like a 1.5 ton sedan. The 2.5 ton Audi SUV drives like a 3 ton SUV.
Not a winning pattern in terms of driving dynamics when your competition drives lighter and nimbler than they measure, and you drive heavier and clumsier.
Particularly troubling given their great success with the S3/S4 sedans, but then again, they didn't start with a clean sheet of paper from a design standpoint, as the E tron appears to be an ICE SUV design that they stuck an electric motor and battery pack into, in a rush to put out a competitive product. But it isn't.
BlueCarNut
Member
If 2.5 mi/kWh is the e-tron's mild-weather efficiency, that's not great. However I've seen my P3D drop to that level in mountainous winter driving, so in certain circumstances it isn't completely uncharacteristic for an M3. But yeah, this time of year, even the P3D approaches 4 mi/kWh and the LR should approach 5 as you say.
I actually agree with much of this, except that the brilliance of the Model 3 lies in just how many ways it excels and beats the competition . . . soundly even, in good part because the whole is indeed more than the sum of its parts. Its software, electronics, motor and battery innovations allow the car to weigh less than the competition, and this in turns allows it to out perform BMW, MB, Lexus, Alfa Romeo et al, in many ways.
Those areas of excellence, in no particular order . .
1) efficiency and range - getting 325-310 miles of EPA range out of only 75Kw battery pack is an underrated achievement, again in part due to superb aerodynamics (lowest CD in any production car) and the advantages of a permanent magnet vs. induction motor in the rear. It's waay out in front in regards to watt-hrs/mi compared to most of the EV competition, and although several cars equal it, or even slightly exceed it, they have way poorer range, and way smaller battery packs.
2) class leading handling and overall performance - the DMP version is faster around a track than any competing sports sedan, due to lower CoG, low polar moment of inertia (comparable to mid-engined cars), and weight savings of the only 75KW battery pack (and an excellent overall chassis design). Throw in track mode which has blown up the previous assumption that EVs can't really hack it on the track due to rapid overheating. Bottom line - it's a hoot to drive, and if anyone thinks that's not critical to its market penetration, talk to BMW. Clearest indication of this - my wife who hates virtually all technology, loves driving her Model 3 DMP, and won't drive anything else unless she has to.
3) superb screen-centric operating system that initially seems too minimalist and then becomes second nature and makes you wonder why no one thought of this before. Throw in cell phone-centric starting, locking and monitoring, and you realize that this thing is way ahead of the "serious car manufacturers" operating systems and logic.
4) safety, both active and passive, are industry leading, in part due to software and integration of information from cameras and sensors, but in part due to massive design advantages of EV with two large crush zones, extra rigid passenger cage, part of which is the battery cage.
5) virtually no maintenance and lower cost of daily operating
So it's more than just brilliant code. It's a composite of breakthroughs and refinements (such as the more efficient switched reluctance rear motor) that together and collectively allow the overall design to realize the long promised theoretical advantages of EV tech (efficiency/cost per mile/low maintenance, instant acceleration and one pedal driving/regen) while minimizing the traditional negatives which are themselves trade-offs against the other (higher weight vs. mediocre range).
It's the collective brilliance of all these refinements and breakthroughs and their synergism that makes the Model 3 a revolutionary and groundbreaking product (and will insure that the Model Y is also).
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John Beans
Member
Sometimes people might think the software part of things in cars is over-hyped. But it really is THE factor upsetting all other industries, so why not cars?
As in the previous comment—but to use an example from another industry we are all familiar with that is further along than auto—you might say, "I don't choose my phone just for the software part. The hardware part and how it looks is JUST as critical."
Here's a thought experiment: suppose someone offered to sell you a phone that (to you) looked cooler than the phone you're holding, had 4x the flash memory, had a super-bright non-glare Quantum Dot display with 2x the pixels you currently have, already could support future 5G networks, had a camera that was twice as good in low light, and a built-in anti-shake 10x optical zoom, a battery that provided 4 solid days of use—yet the phone is slimmer and lighter than your current phone—for $200.
Sounds great. Is there a catch?
Yes, it runs a new operating system you've never heard of.
No surprise, you don't want that phone as your daily driver.
That's what I mean by the MOST important or valuable part. And importantly, notice in phones that the companies that make the vast majority (some years all) of the profit are the ones who control the software.
Although it was starting (at glacial speed) in cars, Tesla really appreciated this from the start, and made the entire car able to be centrally managed by software. The Model 3 was a watershed design that included exactly zero non-momentary switches (all controls return to the same position after use or in the case of steering have servo motors on them). The reason: so that software can more easily use them, too. That's why Model 3 turn signals don't "stay down" when you use them to turn left.
And consumers are caring less and less about "twin overhead cam quattro valves and rack and pinion steering and double wishbone suspension" and more for the software features: navigation, driver assistance, entertainment, security, safety, and mobile phone integration. Software determines the convenience and utility of all of those.
As in the previous comment—but to use an example from another industry we are all familiar with that is further along than auto—you might say, "I don't choose my phone just for the software part. The hardware part and how it looks is JUST as critical."
Here's a thought experiment: suppose someone offered to sell you a phone that (to you) looked cooler than the phone you're holding, had 4x the flash memory, had a super-bright non-glare Quantum Dot display with 2x the pixels you currently have, already could support future 5G networks, had a camera that was twice as good in low light, and a built-in anti-shake 10x optical zoom, a battery that provided 4 solid days of use—yet the phone is slimmer and lighter than your current phone—for $200.
Sounds great. Is there a catch?
Yes, it runs a new operating system you've never heard of.
No surprise, you don't want that phone as your daily driver.
That's what I mean by the MOST important or valuable part. And importantly, notice in phones that the companies that make the vast majority (some years all) of the profit are the ones who control the software.
Although it was starting (at glacial speed) in cars, Tesla really appreciated this from the start, and made the entire car able to be centrally managed by software. The Model 3 was a watershed design that included exactly zero non-momentary switches (all controls return to the same position after use or in the case of steering have servo motors on them). The reason: so that software can more easily use them, too. That's why Model 3 turn signals don't "stay down" when you use them to turn left.
And consumers are caring less and less about "twin overhead cam quattro valves and rack and pinion steering and double wishbone suspension" and more for the software features: navigation, driver assistance, entertainment, security, safety, and mobile phone integration. Software determines the convenience and utility of all of those.
Brian's ReX
Member
Agreed.
For those that think all vehicle buyers are gear-heads... Just start paying attention to commercials for each (car) brand. What you'll see is a lack of statistics (0-60, 1/4 mi, power-to-weight ratio, etc..), and an abundance of 'feelings'. If memory serves, Subaru's motto is along the lines of "It's all about love". This is where Tesla shines, IMO. People sit in a Tesla, and they fall in love with it.
Among all EVs listed by the EPA on their fueleconomy.gov site, only the BYD E6 is worse than the 2019 Audi eTron.
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