EAP and FSD discussion as it relates to Model 3

[JeffK]

They are very likely to at some point build their own chips. Its really the only way to control the cost while getting the aspects that you require. If you take the DrivePX2 for instance, it has processing for Lidar which I believe Tesla will never use.

Drive PX2 is a a set of 2 GPUs and 2 SOCs you can process whatever you want, I wouldn't say it "has processing for LiDAR", as much as it "can process" LiDAR data, it's up to the end manufacturer to write their own software or use Nvidia's DriveWorks.

There were pictures of Tesla using LiDAR for earlier ground truthing to validate the AP 2 system.

The video is from the middle of September 2016

 

[Reciprocity]

Drive PX2 is a a set of 2 GPUs and 2 SOCs you can process whatever you want, I wouldn't say it "has processing for LiDAR", as much as it "can process" LiDAR data, it's up to the end manufacturer to write their own software or use Nvidia's DriveWorks.

There were pictures of Tesla using LiDAR for earlier ground truthing to validate the AP 2 system.

The video is from the middle of September 2016

Your eyes are deceiving you and you dont realize what you are seeing. That is not Tesla testing Lidar for AP2 or HW2 or FSD. Tesla and other auto manufactures are known to use LIDAR on cars for various reasons. In this case, they are probably using the Lidar to validate what they are seeing with the radar. This does not mean they will ever use a Lidar. When you are building these systems, you need something to check against and in this case, its a lidar. They could also be updating some hidef maps or even verifying what they mapped with Radar.

 

[JeffK]

Your eyes are deceiving you and you dont realize what you are seeing. That is not Tesla testing Lidar for AP2 or HW2 or FSD. Tesla and other auto manufactures are known to use LIDAR on cars for various reasons. In this case, they are probably using the Lidar to validate what they are seeing with the radar. This does not mean they will ever use a Lidar. When you are building these systems, you need something to check against and in this case, its a lidar. They could also be updating some hidef maps or even verifying what they mapped with Radar.

Yes, "validation" as I said.

 

[Zaphod]

Your eyes are deceiving you and you dont realize what you are seeing. That is not Tesla testing Lidar for AP2 or HW2 or FSD. Tesla and other auto manufactures are known to use LIDAR on cars for various reasons. In this case, they are probably using the Lidar to validate what they are seeing with the radar. This does not mean they will ever use a Lidar. When you are building these systems, you need something to check against and in this case, its a lidar. They could also be updating some hidef maps or even verifying what they mapped with Radar.

You missed this part in that post --> There were pictures of Tesla using LiDAR for earlier ground truthing to validate the AP 2 system.

In other words, "ground truthing" is fancy way of saying validating.

 

[Reciprocity]

Yes, "validation" as I said.

Sorry, I am not know to not read entire posts before pontificating.

 

[Reciprocity]

"ground truthing"

Thought this was a referencing a flat world, or people living in the core of the earth. Thats what I get for not reading the entire post.

 

[alseTrick]

I mean if you look at how quickly AP2 has come into parity with AP1 shows they have a very high level expertise in the area.

But...

1. It's not at parity. Right?
2. It's now going on 5 months late?
3. They've had to start using more cameras on the new system than the old in order to get it closer to parity.

 

[Reciprocity]

1. It's not at parity. Right?
2. It's now going on 5 months late?
3. They've had to start using more cameras on the new system than the old in order to get it closer to parity.

Don't be silly. 1. Close enough. 2. 6 months to go from nothing to AP2 is amazing and proves ability of Tesla to do the impossible. 3. More cameras are being used for more features, like auto lane change.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I'm hesitant to trust Elon's tweets. He's got a solid lineup of "a swing and a miss" on Tesla-related tweets: The spaceship tweet, the deletion of the Model Y's Falcon Wing Doors tweet, the contradictory tweet about 60 kWh hardware upgrades, the AP2 parity mostly "coming in a week" tweet, Supercharger availability coming "soon" tweet = added 10 months later, etc.

Not saying he's always wrong in his tweets, but there's plenty of evidence that he sometimes misses the mark completely on Tesla-related tweets. But, it's much better than any other car CEO, hahaha.

Well whether it will happen is one thing, but what he actually said is another. We should first get thing straight on what he said. For example on the spaceship tweet it had been interpreted to mean HUD, but if you read what he wrote, it could refer to the FSD hardware.

 

[lunitiks]

IMO for AP2 Tesla chose the absolute minimum, for cost reasons, that they believe they can do some kind of safer-than-humans FSD on.

... in California

 

[Topher]

For example on the spaceship tweet it had been interpreted to mean HUD, but if you read what he wrote, it could refer to the FSD hardware.

With hindsight, it seemed pretty clear to me that that was what he was talking about. I think Tesla expected the Full Self Driving to be more of a huge deal. But people seemed to be expecting it, and looking for something else.

Thank you kindly.

 

[ZeApelido]

Again, I have stated this before and will again, more sensors is not always better. The problems come in when your sensors and vision do not agree on what they see. Which one is right? Have you ever heard a sound that you thought was something and it conflicted with what your eyes where seeing?

Sensor fusion theory disagrees with you. When properly accounted for, more is always better. The added cost may not be worth the marginal gains in safety / accuracy, however.

 

[Bladerskb]

I say the opposite, they put to many in the system because they only had one bite at the apple to get it right. Its almost like people, not you, but people in general look at this like it just came into existence as an idea that Elon had on the toilet while pondering the Fermi Paradox while wondering if we are all living in a simulation and Tesla changed their manufacturing process and bought some hardware from the local PC Club and just bolted it all together and called it good. I would guess that they have been working on this since they put the first forward looking cameras in the car. I mean if you look at how quickly AP2 has come into parity with AP1 shows they have a very high level expertise in the area.

The 8 camera system and 3 forward facing camera system originated and is patented by Mobileye, even the exact placement on tesla cars.
You give Tesla way too much credit.

 

[alseTrick]

Don't be silly. 1. Close enough. 2. 6 months to go from nothing to AP2 is amazing and proves ability of Tesla to do the impossible. 3. More cameras are being used for more features, like auto lane change.

"Close enough"? Give me a break. That's lousy reasoning. And from what I've read on the S/X boards, AP is flat out dangerous on non-divided highways whereas the original setup is not, even if neither situation is recommended by Tesla.

Tesla started from zero 6 months ago? False. That's when they quit installing hw1 but they were obviously working on hw2 ap long before then.

Did the car not change lanes with ap1?

 

[stopcrazypp]

"Close enough"? Give me a break. That's lousy reasoning. And from what I've read on the S/X boards, AP is flat out dangerous on non-divided highways whereas the original setup is not, even if neither situation is recommended by Tesla.

You get varying amounts of opinion on this actually. Some say it's roughly the same as AP1 now (perhaps missing a bit of polish), some say it's dangerous. Some say AP1 is dangerous too in the same situation. There are also varying opinions on the how AP2 compares to AP1 when it was initially released I don't think there is consensus.

Tesla started from zero 6 months ago? False. That's when they quit installing hw1 but they were obviously working on hw2 ap long before then.

I agree, they definitely were working on AP2 before 6 months ago. But the progress is still impressive compared to AP1 (which didn't have autosteer at all until a year later).

Did the car not change lanes with ap1?

Not sure what you are referring to here. Both AP1 and AP2 have the "auto lane change" function, but neither can change lanes without user requesting to do so.

 

[Reciprocity]

"Close enough"? Give me a break. That's lousy reasoning. And from what I've read on the S/X boards, AP is flat out dangerous on non-divided highways whereas the original setup is not, even if neither situation is recommended by Tesla.

Tesla started from zero 6 months ago? False. That's when they quit installing hw1 but they were obviously working on hw2 ap long before then.

Did the car not change lanes with ap1?

I own an AP2 car, it works fine. No issues. I am a bit upset by the lack of AEB, but I would rather they get it right then get it out fast.

 

[alseTrick]

I own an AP2 car, it works fine. No issues. I am a bit upset by the lack of AEB, but I would rather they get it right then get it out fast.

Wait. So these vehicles AREN'T at parity?

 

[alseTrick]

You get varying amounts of opinion on this actually. Some say it's roughly the same as AP1 now (perhaps missing a bit of polish), some say it's dangerous. Some say AP1 is dangerous too in the same situation. There are also varying opinions on the how AP2 compares to AP1 when it was initially released I don't think there is consensus.


I agree, they definitely were working on AP2 before 6 months ago. But the progress is still impressive compared to AP1 (which didn't have autosteer at all until a year later).


Not sure what you are referring to here. Both AP1 and AP2 have the "auto lane change" function, but neither can change lanes without user requesting to do so.

Then we seem to basically agree on most points, vague though they may be.

The lane change was in direct response to the person i was replying to...who apparently claimed ap1 couldn't do it.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

It could've been interpreted as HUD, but not necessarily. I think Elon, at Part 2 of the reveal, stated he was discussing FSD.

Some of the statements from Tesla and Elon also relate to plans that never did come to fruition - and they have a history of not really explaining such changes, simply changing the narrative to fit. Model X and folding seven-seater seats are one such instance.

It is possible whatever Elon talked about as spaceship controls simply didn't materialize and he pivoted to FSD.

 

[Reciprocity]

Wait. So these vehicles AREN'T at parity?

No one died, so yeah parity. Today's patch 17.17.4 brings full speed auto steer on all roads, side collision warning with avoidance and auto high beams. So good enough. Oh what now willist thou complain about?