Electrify Everything

[andy92782]

If that was a persuasive argument there would still be indoor smoking. How long did we tolerate that for?

Heat pump for heating water/air. Induction and convection for cooking. Plenty of all electric homes that do just fine. When used for peak shaving the environmental cost of batteries is paid back in a few years if not months.

There still is indoor smoking. If I want to smoke a cigarette here in my house there's no reason I can't, and I wouldn't be breaking any laws.

Again, explain to me how a heat pump can be used to roast a turkey.

A somewhat prescient article printed in the LA Times in 2001:

U.S./California: History of the "all electric home"

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Does anybody have a link to the legislation/rules on this 2030 ban on new non-zero-emission stoves?

 

[andy92782]

Does anybody have a link to the legislation/rules on this 2030 ban on new non-zero-emission stoves?

Gas stoves aren't being banned, at least not yet, but in California there is very real talk about banning the sale of gas furnaces and water heaters starting in 2030. Not banning them for new construction homes but banning them outright so that even existing homeowners can no longer purchase.

I tend to agree with this article in the WSJ:

Opinion | The Coming Gas Stove Culture War

Don’t believe this week’s denials. Progressive Democrats really are coming for your kitchen appliances.

www.wsj.com

Paywall removed: Welcome to nginx!

The danger here is that bureaucracies like CARB have to move on to other interesting things to mandate and ban now that they've achieved total victory with automobiles. Once gas furnaces and water heaters are banned, stoves are next, especially because breathing their emissions harms us (and they know more about what's good for us than we do)

 

[nwdiver]

There still is indoor smoking. If I want to smoke a cigarette here in my house there's no reason I can't, and I wouldn't be breaking any laws.

Again, explain to me how a heat pump can be used to roast a turkey.

Not in public. But there was. For decades. If it was that bad... why did we do it for so long then stop?

Heat pump for heating water/air. Induction and convection for cooking.

Has there ever been any progress in which ~40% of the country didn't kick and scream for a few years before eventually realizing things are better? This too shall pass. And we'll all be better for it

 

[andy92782]

"You might have to upgrade your electricity to 220 or 240. That's going to cost you about $300."

OMG. This guy's obviously been inhaling way too many gas fumes... He's short by almost two orders of magnitude.

 

[bruce4000]

Got my gas chipper out to do some leaves and branches. Used it last Sept, ran the gas out like it says, was running fine, stored in shed. Got it out to use again and Fing thing won’t start. I spray some starting ether in air filter and will caugh a few times but won’t stay running so probably not getting gas. 5hp B&S has always been hard to start.
I’m so done with ICE engines!!

 

[mspohr]

Got my gas chipper out to do some leaves and branches. Used it last Sept, ran the gas out like it says, was running fine, stored in shed. Got it out to use again and Fing thing won’t start. I spray some starting ether in air filter and will caugh a few times but won’t stay running so probably not getting gas. 5hp B&S has always been hard to start.
I’m so done with ICE engines!!

I've switched to all electric. Lawn mower, chipper, chain saws, snow blowers. They always start first time, every time.

 

[mspohr]

Mankind has been piping gas into homes for almost a century. If it was as dangerous as you suggest, we would have figured out decades ago it was a bad idea and stopped doing so forever. In fact, I think we've given it a go already: The house my parents live in was built in 1968. It still has the "Medallion Home" doorbell on the front, proudly proclaiming it was an all electric home (although the furnace and water heater use gas; not sure how that happened). Yet somehow when my home was built twenty years later in 1988, it was judged wiser to avoid electric appliances and use natural gas for everything. Something must have happened between the late '60s and mid '80s to change society's opinion on the benefits of electricity. Or are you suggesting we were all completely insane during this time period and it was a vast conspiracy between the gas utilities and home builders?

Also, you're moving the goalposts. You cannot use a heat pump to boil a pot of water in the kithen. You cannot use a heat pump to roast a turkey or bake a cake. And solar energy cannot be used at all during peak demand periods after the sun sets without also using expensive batteries, and the manufacturing of batteries carries an environmental cost which you cannot deny.

Science.
We discovered that smoking is bad for your health.
We discovered that gas appliances are bad for your health.
For your health, you might want to believe the science and get rid of your gas appliances. Yes, it will cost money but there are generous incentives to reduce the cost.
You can replace your gas range with 120 volt appliances at low cost. I did this in an apartment I own. Two burner induction stovetop and countertop air fryer convection oven. Very functional. Lived there for a year while new all electric house was being built.

 

[andy92782]

You can replace your gas range with 120 volt appliances at low cost. I did this in an apartment I own. Two burner induction stovetop and countertop air fryer convection oven. Very functional. Lived there for a year while new all electric house was being built.

What am I going to do with the 30" gap between my countertops left behind by the gas range that's no longer there? What about the 249 other homeowners in my HOA who are afflicted with the same problem? Do you think it's acceptable to tell someone their only options are A) a massive special assessment to upgrade the electrical service for the entire development, or B) a complete kitchen remodel to fill in the hole left behind with the end result being less functional than before?

I suspect we'll keep our gas ranges functional for decades to come. After they're banned they'll be like those MacGyver'd cars from the 1950s still roaming around Cuba, a completely unnecessary situation 100% caused by out of control government.

 

[mspohr]

What am I going to do with the 30" gap between my countertops left behind by the gas range that's no longer there? What about the 249 other homeowners in my HOA who are afflicted with the same problem? Do you think it's acceptable to tell someone their only options are A) a massive special assessment to upgrade the electrical service for the entire development, or B) a complete kitchen remodel to fill in the hole left behind with the end result being less functional than before?

I suspect we'll keep our gas ranges functional for decades to come. After they're banned they'll be like those MacGyver'd cars from the 1950s still roaming around Cuba, a completely unnecessary situation 100% caused by out of control government.

Ikea has nice cabinets and countertops to fill that gap.
Keep your gas if you want but it is bad for your health.

 

[nwdiver]

What am I going to do with the 30" gap between my countertops left behind by the gas range that's no longer there? What about the 249 other homeowners in my HOA who are afflicted with the same problem? Do you think it's acceptable to tell someone their only options are A) a massive special assessment to upgrade the electrical service for the entire development, or B) a complete kitchen remodel to fill in the hole left behind with the end result being less functional than before?

I suspect we'll keep our gas ranges functional for decades to come. After they're banned they'll be like those MacGyver'd cars from the 1950s still roaming around Cuba, a completely unnecessary situation 100% caused by out of control government.

When the gas lines servicing residential neighborhoods are inevitably damaged by an earthquake and need to be rebuilt to service the few people that cling to gas. Should they be repaired?

Clearly it's a problem. Start working toward a solution. There were lots of people that said removing lead from gasoline was more trouble than it was worth and that it wasn't really a problem anyway since we'd been burning leaded gasoline for decades and if it was really that bad it would have been halted earlier. Problem was solved and now we're all better for it

Gosh darn gubment... who do they think they are? Exterminating lethal diseases and forcing us to breathe clean air?! sic semper tyrannis!

 

[RubberToe]

May not need to electrify everything if Terraform Industries is able to pull this off. Natural gas (plus various other liquid fuels) from thin air, using only electricity as a feedstock. So it would be basically converting electricity to natural gas, which could be delivered using existing gas pipelines. Haven't read the whole white paper yet, just got to the point where natural gas was mentioned as the first product.

Terraform Industries Whitepaper 2.0

Fuel from the sky: Cheap hydrocarbons from CO2 direct air capture and sunlight. (Original post). terraformindustries.com At Terraform Industries, we believe our species and civilization shoul…

caseyhandmer.wordpress.com

 

[Midnightsun]

Here they have already started banning oil furnaces in new residential buildings. As of Jan 1st, it is not legally possible to get an oil fired furnace repaired if it is over 20 years old. Natural gas and electric are about the only options. Right now electric is by far the cheapest method here. Quebec oil furnace ban

 

[mspohr]

May not need to electrify everything if Terraform Industries is able to pull this off. Natural gas (plus various other liquid fuels) from thin air, using only electricity as a feedstock. So it would be basically converting electricity to natural gas, which could be delivered using existing gas pipelines. Haven't read the whole white paper yet, just got to the point where natural gas was mentioned as the first product.

Terraform Industries Whitepaper 2.0

Fuel from the sky: Cheap hydrocarbons from CO2 direct air capture and sunlight. (Original post). terraformindustries.com At Terraform Industries, we believe our species and civilization shoul…

caseyhandmer.wordpress.com

Using clean electricity to make a potent greenhouse gas which when burned makes more pollution...?

 

[nwdiver]

May not need to electrify everything if Terraform Industries is able to pull this off. Natural gas (plus various other liquid fuels) from thin air, using only electricity as a feedstock. So it would be basically converting electricity to natural gas, which could be delivered using existing gas pipelines. Haven't read the whole white paper yet, just got to the point where natural gas was mentioned as the first product.

Terraform Industries Whitepaper 2.0

Fuel from the sky: Cheap hydrocarbons from CO2 direct air capture and sunlight. (Original post). terraformindustries.com At Terraform Industries, we believe our species and civilization shoul…

caseyhandmer.wordpress.com

Maybe in a century but we're A LONG... LOOONG way from it making any sense to use H2 fuel to displace CH4 fuel. Why burn H2 as fuel instead of CH4 when even a tiny bit of CH4 is still being used to produce H2?

 

[miimura]

Maybe in a century but we're A LONG... LOOONG way from it making any sense to use H2 fuel to displace CH4 fuel. Why burn H2 as fuel instead of CH4 when even a tiny bit of CH4 is still being used to produce H2?

Transporting H2 is a problem. I can see it making sense at some point in the future to use excess renewable electricity to make CH4 from atmospheric carbon to put into the gas network in one location while using gas to make H2 in another location.

 

[mspohr]

US renters worry about living with gas stoves amid new air pollution concerns

Barbara Briggs, who lives in the Woodley Park neighborhood, was shocked to find nitrogen dioxide (NO2) levels of 220 parts per billion (ppb) in her kitchen, more than double the level identified as safe by the Environmental Protection Agency for one hour of exposure. Briggs uses an induction stovetop as her burner of choice. “I bought an electric kettle so I don’t have to use my gas stove to make coffee or boil water,” Briggs said, adding that on the rare occasion that she does use the stove, she opens the kitchen window.

Richard Vilmenay has been living in a rent-controlled Dupont Circle apartment for nearly 10 years. Tests showed NO2 levels in his apartment were even higher, coming in at 386ppb. “I didn’t think it would be that high,” Vilmenay said. He added that ever since then, he’s been using the gas stove a lot less in favor of his microwave and looked into installing an induction stove. Vilmenay, who lives with his two-year-old daughter, is considering bringing up the possibility of switching out of a gas stove with his building’s management company.

Are gas stoves really dangerous? What we know about the science

New studies are showing just how harmful gas stoves can be, but there are good alternatives to the open flame

www.theguardian.com

 

[miimura]

If you have a proper exhaust hood over your gas range that actually exhausts outside, the health effects are greatly reduced. I was always puzzled as to why hoods were ever made that just run the air through a filter and push the air into the room. I mean besides the obvious reason that people like the appearance of a hood and running the duct outside can be costly.

 

[mspohr]

If you have a proper exhaust hood over your gas range that actually exhausts outside, the health effects are greatly reduced. I was always puzzled as to why hoods were ever made that just run the air through a filter and push the air into the room. I mean besides the obvious reason that people like the appearance of a hood and running the duct outside can be costly.

That should reduce NOx but not the benzene and other chemicals that leak constantly

 

[nwdiver]

Another reason to go all electric. Buying propane helps fund FUD.