nwdiver
Well-Known Member
.... as opposed to no government action that will force us all to deal with climate change? Saying that government policy is the lesser evil is probably the understatement of the giga-annum.
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Electrify Everything
- Thread starter ItsNotAboutTheMoney
- Start date
.... as opposed to no government action that will force us all to deal with climate change? Saying that government policy is the lesser evil is probably the understatement of the giga-annum.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
The government directs and regulates activities all the time.
For instance, they passed the IRA to encourage people to install heat pumps by providing a generous subsidy for the cost.
Take advantage of it.
It would still be necessary to run new conduits for 240V circuits into each condo's utility closet (washer/dryer) and kitchen (stove). This would cost each homeowner many, many thousands of dollars in terms of electrical work, drywall patching/painting and possibly even kitchen remodeling just to gain access to the walls behind the cabinets to run the circuit. All this cost and hassle to swap out gas appliances which work perfectly fine as-is to new ones which will likely be consuming electricity at peak pricing (4pm-9pm; that's when people cook dinner).
You need to go for the low hanging fruit. Put electric appliances into new home construction. Very few people are arguing that. I'm not. But forcing me (and many others) to spend umpteen thousand dollars upgrading my home when what I have now works fine? Sorry dude, you will NEVER convince me.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
... we are. The Berkley ban was for NEW gas appliance in NEW homes. Any gas furnace ban in 2030 will also be for NEW appliance.
.... how long do you expect to have a gas water heater? 2040? 2050?
Regardless of energy source, I don't expect to have any water heater longer than about 10 years. That's about how long it takes for the sacrificial anode to corrode and for the tank itself to start rusting and leaking. But the place has been using natural gas water heaters since it was built some 35 years ago so there's no reason to expect I couldn't keep doing the same.
And speaking of heat pump water heaters, what happens when they rust out? They're basically refrigerators (compressor, evaporator, condenser, etc). Does all that stuff wind up in a landfill? Water heaters don't last nearly as long as refrigerators or HVAC units (which tend not to rust out every 10 years). And judging by the Home Depot and Lowes websites, they seem to cost 3X what a standard gas or resistive electric unit goes for.
Per spec sheet SANCO2 is only 37dB. Heat pump makers learning from each other and improving all the time.
Compressors vibrate, and unlike fridges which are standalone, a heat pump will be bolted to your walls and plumbing. And homes have a strange way of resonating with vibration in a really annoying way.
Those anode rods are replaceable for a reason.
That's absurd. Kind of like someone complaining that he can't get whale oil to run his lamp anymore. Things change, and when they do, just update your appliances and the connections they use. Those gas pipes won't last forever either.
Have a decent amount of experience with this personally and with others in my circle and generally this is not an issue. Besides the usual refrigerator "heat pump", have had a heat pump water heater and heat pump central air for several years now. No real issues there. Family and friends/colleagues with the same non-issues.
If there is one, the biggest sound villain is the heat pump water heater. It sits in the garage and on the other side of the wall is our master bathroom. It can be heard in the master bathroom as a low background noise, and even faintly in our master bedroom if the door is open and it is otherwise dead quite. Yet the refrigerator and dishwasher are heard louder in that room all the way from the kitchen.
Funny thing is... horses had FSD thousands of years ago. You get hit with an arrow and slump over, your horse would take you right home on it's own.
I have some experience with this also. A few years ago I replaced the furnace. The new one came with an inducer fan. When that fan turns on, the motor vibration couples into the walls of my house and my entire dining room vibrates/resonates like you're walking into a subwoofer enclosure.
When my 5-stage AC system (Carrier Infinity) is running on the lowest setting it's almost completely inaudible... except for the fact that at that particular speed and frequency, the vibrations from the compressor couple into the house via the lineset and it makes my fireplace rattle.
Compressors vibrate, and unless they're extremely well isolated there is a risk that noise will couple into the structure and make something else rattle or resonate.
Just give me the $10K+ necessary to retrofit my condo and satisfy the HOA and I'll be happy to do so.
That's your responsibility as the owner, just like it's your responsibility to keep the unit painted, the roof in good condition, the toilets and sinks and kitchen appliances working, etc.
Sure I do. You pay the HOA and the HOA pays for the work on the shared infrastructure (roofs, exterior paint, etc.). But anything inside your unit and that is not shared is your responsibility to pay for so while a service line upgrade to your unit would run through a shared area, the HOA wouldn't pay for it. Nor would the HOA pay for wiring between your main panel and your kitchen which is internal to your unit.
Anything "between the drywall" is common property, even if it's exclusive to my unit. There is no upgrading anything without HOA involvement. And even if they approved, they would require me (and anyone else in the development interested in doing this) to take out a $1M liability policy to cover the electrical upgrades and require me to show proof of this insurance every year thereafter, It would be recorded on the deed. The next owner would get to do the same.
The only way to avoid this would be for the entire HOA to agree to a massive infrastructure upgrade project where the entire development is updated all at once, costing each unit thousands in special assessments, even if they didn't wish to participate. Any such proposal would be DOA. Most people are far less rational than I am. They typically come out with pitchforks to protest $10/mo increase in HOA dues. A proposal like this would probably result in death threats to the board members.
GreenCoffee
Member
Sure, some items need HOA approval but are your responsibility to pay for, like installing a EVSE to your parking space.
Not if gas appliances get banned and it becomes a necessity. Although if you have already upgraded your unit, you should ask to be excluded from the special assessment.
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