To me FSD was a car, that can fully drive itself, with no driver needed. Sure, that’s not even legal right now and probably not possible soon.
But I want my FSD Model S to have that eventually.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Elon: "Feature complete for full self driving this year"
- Thread starter dckiwi
- Start date
To me FSD was a car, that can fully drive itself, with no driver needed. Sure, that’s not even legal right now and probably not possible soon.
But I want my FSD Model S to have that eventually.
A continous flow of features is not a problem — that much was to be expected. In fact we expected that by summer 2017 because Tesla announced it as such.
The concern here is if after all this time Tesla now, on the cusp of HW3, decides to go this conservative on their wording that probably does not bode too well for the ”FSD” wording of 2016-2018 or the Tesla Network we have been promised details of ”next year” for the past two years+... I mean even the coast to coast demo seems abandoned.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Well, I think Tesla is just trying to be more realistic in their marketing (finally!). So yeah, they are being more conservative. Instead of the bombastic FSD description, now the FSD description gives us the specific features that they will actually be able to release this year. More features like the Tesla Network could still come at some point in the future.
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
rant
Disagree all you want, but this is my take:
Brand name: «Full self-driving».
Musk conference call 2016: Level 5.
Ordering page was talking about «tesla vision», a ride hailing «tesla network», and giving the impression that regulatory approval was the primary hurdle for full autonomy. (Fueled by countless news articles that Tesla made no attempt to correct.)
The necessary HW was already in the car, and software was pending «validation».
Musk went on talking about summoning your car from anywhere in the country, sleeping in the car etc., and FSD features departing from EAP in 3-6 months.
That was the product people bought. Honestly, am I wrong?
So what happened today?
Today the «Enhanced» autopilot was removed, and FSD is now sold as a set of clearly defined «features». The list of festures includes previous EAP features.
Most importantly, however, Tesla now explixitly states that FSD will not make the car autonomous. Not in any shape or form. Not this year or next year or ever. That was a past promise. And this is a big one IMO. It’s the warning Tesla (rightfully) gave back in the AP1 days. Back the in driver-assistance days.
Read my lips: There will be nags.
/rant
Disagree all you want, but this is my take:
Brand name: «Full self-driving».
Musk conference call 2016: Level 5.
Ordering page was talking about «tesla vision», a ride hailing «tesla network», and giving the impression that regulatory approval was the primary hurdle for full autonomy. (Fueled by countless news articles that Tesla made no attempt to correct.)
The necessary HW was already in the car, and software was pending «validation».
Musk went on talking about summoning your car from anywhere in the country, sleeping in the car etc., and FSD features departing from EAP in 3-6 months.
That was the product people bought. Honestly, am I wrong?
So what happened today?
Today the «Enhanced» autopilot was removed, and FSD is now sold as a set of clearly defined «features». The list of festures includes previous EAP features.
Most importantly, however, Tesla now explixitly states that FSD will not make the car autonomous. Not in any shape or form. Not this year or next year or ever. That was a past promise. And this is a big one IMO. It’s the warning Tesla (rightfully) gave back in the AP1 days. Back the in driver-assistance days.
Read my lips: There will be nags.
/rant
Did anybody notice that in addition to redefining FSD, they have taken everything but TACC and Autosteer out of the EAP package (for new orders) and put it into FSD? NoA is now an FSD-only feature, along with Summon (no more talk of Smart Summon I think?) and Autopark (which now is clearly just parallel and perpendicular parking, which we already have, not "Park Seek" or whatever it was...)
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Wrong. The site says that FSD is not autonomous NOW. Tesla is not saying that FSD will never be autonomous ever.
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
Not autonomous now, yes. And that’s not followed up by any future promise of autonomy. Simply two more features, that’s coming this year, and then FSD’s «feature complete» right?
That is true, @lunitiks got that detail wrong. However the new wording also removes any suggestions that it will be autonomous, which used to be there in the old wording.
The new FSD basically only promises Level 2 features (assuming regulatory approval) whereas the old system promised inactive driver or even driverless Level 4-5 features (assuming regulatory approval). That is a big change in the promise.
Tesla becoming more realistic is welcome in itself. Too bad in this case it really paints their old comms and promises in a bad light. Maybe even in a sad light as I think @lunitiks put it in a past thread — rest of lunitiks’ opinion being spot on in my view...
I mean listen to Elon announce AP2 (and this was AP2, not AP2.5) as Level 5 capable hardware back in 2016. Constrast that to today...
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Actually, if you read the description for Summon it sounds a lot like Park Seek:
"your parked car will find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really"
So I am thinking that the Summon on the website is the same as what we used to refer to as Smart Summon.
Awhile back, I suggested that Tesla might make these changes. When NOA was first teased, I remember asking the question on this forum whether it would be under EAP or FSD. Of course, at the time, everyone told me that it had to be released under EAP because Tesla promised it would be. But I actually think that these changes make a lot of sense. NOA, Auto Park and Smart Summon are features that very much sound like self-driving features. With the NOA coming on March 15, our cars can drive on the highway without driver input, changing lanes on its own and taking the right exits on its own. That certainly sounds like self-driving to me. And the car auto parking on its own. Again, that sounds like self-driving. And Summon that is described as the car finding you in a parking lot on its own. Again, that sounds like self-driving because it is describing the car acting on its own without you touching the wheel. So now, all the features where the car can do driving on its own will be together under the FSD umbrella. And the only features that are left under EAP are the features that are truly just basic driver assist features like auto steer (lane keeping basically) and TACC (adaptive cruise control). That makes sense to me.
I think Tesla put NOA, Auto Park and Summon under EAP because they wanted to beef up EAP and because those features were more basic. For example, Summon. There is a big difference between the current Summon where you just remote control your car forward or backwards a few feet (the driver is completely controlling the car) and this new Summon where the car can drive on its own in a parking lot without you in it. So now that Tesla has features that are ready to be "self-driving" features, it makes sense to roll them all up under the same FSD umbrella.
rreedd
Member
So My question is, if these features now called FSD were paid for as EAP, what will the people that paid for FSD be with this grand renaming really be getting, now or in the future?. Since they already paid for EAP (now FSD) + FSD.
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
Please recall Tesla removed FSD from the menu because it was creating «too much confusion» (paraphrasing).
The mistake they made today was to reinstall that wording. Naming this feature set «FSD» creates more confusion now than ever
The mistake they made today was to reinstall that wording. Naming this feature set «FSD» creates more confusion now than ever
boonedocks
MS LR Blk/Blk 19”
Amen!!
I am even less hopeful than before. Yet another in the line of Elon/Tesla #LetDowns
I think keeping the old name with a new, more limited feature set allows setting up a mission accomplished banner sooner...
rreedd
Member
I get that, I guess i am just confused. They removed FSD from the menu, but it was still available on you tesla page to purchase. My question is, people have paid for FSD, which was EAP + $$$$. Now that EAP which they already paid for is called FSD. where does that leave those people. Is it going to be NOA without nags? A few grands seem to be evaporating in this equation, or am I just not getting it?
The new promise is that FSD will get urban driving with stop signs and traffic lights (assumed with nags of course). So for those whose EAP already includes most of the newly named ”FSD features” the difference is the urban driving as announced today. Still seems like a Level 2 driver’s assistance feature as any talk of becoming autonomous has been removed.
Wait, what in the world is "Automatic driving on city streets"?
Is that really what's on the order page or are you ppl joking?
rreedd
Member
But FSD as it is now, is EAP renamed. What do those that paid the extra for FSD get? The urban driving and traffic lights seem to be included for all at this point?
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Basically, Tesla is being more honest now. They are sticking to what they can actually deliver NOW. So the reason they are only promising L2 features is because that is what they are ready to actually give us NOW. The reason they are not promising future autonomy is because they don't want to make future promises that they may or may not be able to keep. It does not mean that "FSD" won't be autonomous in the future, Tesla is just not ready to make that promise yet. The silver lining is that if Tesla is ready at some point to make "FSD" truly autonomous, they will tell us.
And I know that folks are disappointed because Tesla did promise L4/5 autonomy many times for years. But let's face it: Tesla made promises way before they were in a position to keep them. So what was Tesla supposed to do? What do you do when you make a promise that you can't keep? Either you give up and completely renege on your promise. That's not an option for Tesla as it would mean lawsuits and a huge loss of reputation and money. Or Tesla tells customers to wait even longer, still promoting the hope that they will still deliver L4 autonomy "soon". That was not going to work either since many customers who pre-paid for FSD have already been waiting a long time. Tesla is doing the only thing really that they can do: reset things to more realistic promises that they can keep now, deliver something tangible to customers and avoid any more future promises.
Sounds like Navigate on Autopilot for city streets to me. Level 2 with nags of course.
Nothing?
But there are still two tiers and at least a somewhat similar price for entry. There is still AP you need to get FSD — in totality AP + FSD seems somewhat similar to EAP + FSD.
Though of course the new FSD description is a far cry from the old one and EAP has notwbeen split between AP and FSD.
If you have just EAP you get to keep the old feature scope according to Elon’s tweets but the upgrade policy seemed to be something still to be clarified for those with EAP but no FSD...
Similar threads
