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Elon: "Feature complete for full self driving this year"

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Basically, Tesla is being more honest now. They are sticking to what they can actually deliver NOW.

Except they're still not sticking to what they can actually deliver NOW, because the "parking lot summon" thing is way harder than you imagine; I question whether they can do it in a way that isn't so fantastically dangerous that nobody will do it.

But let's talk about your choice of the word "honest". That's certainly one interpretation. But here's another -- they are limiting their liability with respect to current/future purchasers by no longer promising anything about full driverless autonomy. They can't do much about the liability for the ~150k people who have bought AP2 cars already, but by this time next year that will represent maybe 30% of their total number of customers? And a year after that, a small fraction. In other words, once they are selling more cars and are on a more stable footing, they can weather the impact of the massive liability they have to people who bought cars prior to this move.

But, if they kept making unkeepable promises, their liability would just pile up and up and up, getting worse the more they sell. They'd never dig themselves out of that hole.

Somebody on the legal and/or finance team finally got this message through Elon's thick skull I think. And I think leaving the "parking lot summon" feature in there was a concession that Elon demanded and they conceded, because Elon still doesn't get it.

(But "parking lot summon" is of very little economic value even if it worked, compared to something like being a driverless robotaxi in the Tesla Network, so their actual liability on that is more limited.)
 
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Tesla has been promising Summon finding the owner on private property since AP1 days. I guess they need all the intensifiers they can think of to avoid being the boy who cried wolf too many times.

Interestingly Tesla lists this as a current feature for cars one can order with delivery times of 2 weeks or maybe even less. That firmware update must be right around the corner, right? Right? Guys? Anyone?
May be grouped into the March 15 release: Elon Musk on Twitter
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Full self driving = Level 2 driver assistance according to Tesla.

They already defined full self driving as a Level 2 driver assistance not as a Level 4/5 system on the order page.
Tesla defense in court would be we already have full self driving in almost all circumstances. Elon already said that when asked about FSD. He said, "we already have full self driving on the highway".

And about the third picture, Tesla ALREADY says current AP is more than 2x better than humans. So that statement is completely worthless because its a stat they fabricate/control and they can wield, mold, bend, and shape it anyway they want and we already seen them do it already with the quarterly "autopilot safety report".

No where on the order page or the model page does it talk about a driverless, level 4/5 or a system that doesn't require supervision or no driver input. Not now or in the future. I'm still waiting.

OK, so it looks like you missed this part of my original post:
Or are you basing your argument off the development path that has nags at the beginning for FSD functions and extrapolating that to mean it always will?

Order page says:
The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.
You are buying the FSD package, which will improve over time.

Advanced summon will be a driverless mode (level 4).
 
Full self driving = Level 2 driver assistance according to Tesla.

They already defined full self driving as a Level 2 driver assistance not as a Level 4/5 system on the order page.

I think you are putting your spin on things. You are making it sound like Tesla just took the current autopilot, added traffic light and stop sign recognition and slapped an "FSD" sticker on it. That's not the case. Yes the car will be L2 at first but only because of the driver attention requirement. The car will be a lot more than your typical L2 ADAS. If you look at the features, the car will be able to drive from A to B without driver input, navigating city streets etc, much like a L4/5 car would. Tesla is still defining FSD as L4/5. They are just going to temporarily operate some parts of "FSD" at L2 until those parts are proven. But if you look at the new Summon, it will be L4.

Heck, it's why Tesla has changed the features under AP and FSD to better make the distinction clearer. The features under the new AP (auto steer and TACC) are very much L2 only. The features under the new FSD (Highway NOA, Auto Park, Summon, city driving, traffic light and stop sign recognition) are much more like L4/5.

No where on the order page or the model page does it talk about a driverless, level 4/5 or a system that doesn't require supervision or no driver input. Not now or in the future. I'm still waiting.

On my Tesla account, when I go to upgrade to FSD it does hint that supervision will eventually go away:

"The current features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The future use of these features without supervision is dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."
 
Notice the informal intensifier «Really.» at the end of the Summon description. I wonder who decided that. «Like Really, dude. Really.»

You know when you tell someone you are going to do something.....over and over and over and over again.....but you don’t follow through......and you say it yet again....you usually follow it up with “NO - NO - for real this time....really I mean it”. Smh smh smh
 
This seems to be the reaction on this forum:

2016 Tesla: FSD is coming.
2017-19 Owners: So where's our FSD Tesla? You promised! Did you lie? Where is it?
2019 Tesla: All the FSD features are finally here! In the beginning, we'll require driver supervision for city self-driving but it will go away once the system has proven itself.
2019 Owners: BOOOO!!! That's not FSD. You lied again!
 
This seems to be the reaction on this forum:

2016 Tesla: FSD is coming.
2017-19 Owners: So where's our FSD Tesla? You promised! Did you lie? Where is it?
2019 Tesla: All the FSD features are finally here! In the beginning, we'll require driver supervision for city self-driving but it will go away once the system has proven itself.
2019 Owners: BOOOO!!! That's not FSD. You lied again!

I paid for FSD now 24 months ago based on Tesla's description and video of FSD. What you have listed above is no further along and to be honest based on past performance and reliability still where we were at 24 months ago for FSD.

"2019 Tesla: All the FSD features are finally here! In the beginning, we'll require driver supervision for city self-driving but it will go away once the system has proven itself."

I'll believe it when I see it....Tweets and phone calls and podcasts are, at this point, total BS...
 
I paid for FSD now 24 months ago based on Tesla's description and video of FSD. What you have listed above is no further along and to be honest based on past performance and reliability still where we were at 24 months ago for FSD.

"2019 Tesla: All the FSD features are finally here! In the beginning, we'll require driver supervision for city self-driving but it will go away once the system has proven itself."

I'll believe it when I see it....Tweets and phone calls and podcasts are, at this point, total BS...

True, none of us have experienced FSD yet. But what I wrote is an accurate one-line summary of the FSD description on the order and tesla account pages.

it just seems like some folks are putting Tesla in a no-win scenario. They complain that Tesla is 2 years late with no FSD but don't believe Tesla when they say that FSD is finally here. So yeah, I get that we need to see it to believe it. But's let's wait and see it instead of just dismissing it before seeing it.

And I would point that the new order page is a good sign because it is more official. It's not Musk making big promises. We now have a FSD order page with actual features specified and a timeline. So I think it bodes well that FSD is near.
 
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True, none of us have experienced FSD yet. But what I wrote is an accurate one-line summary of the FSD description on the order and tesla account pages.
And I would point that the new order page is a good sign because it is more official. It's not Musk making big promises. We now have a FSD order page with actual features specified and a timeline. So I think it bodes well that FSD is near.


Herein lies the joke....on us.....
 
Herein lies the joke....on us.....

All I am saying is that there is a difference between Musk tweeting that something is coming "3-6 months" or "maybe 2 years" and the order page where customers buy the option saying "feature X, Y, Z is coming later this year". The order page stating that specific features are coming this year, is more credible to me than a Musk tweet.
 
All I am saying is that there is a difference between Musk tweeting that something is coming "3-6 months" or "maybe 2 years" and the order page where customers buy the option saying "feature X, Y, Z is coming later this year". The order page stating that specific features are coming this year, is more credible to me than a Musk tweet.

At least we know which size you drink your Kool-Aide from:
1CC4E4F0-26F9-4934-AA4C-9E5C89ED9066.jpeg


Kinda kidding kinda not.....
 
At least we know which size you drink your Kool-Aide from:
View attachment 381891

Kinda kidding kinda not.....

Very funny! I like it. And look, I don't drink soda of any kind in real life. But if I am a Tesla "kool aid" drinker, so be it. I love my Tesla car and I love the tech innovation from Tesla. I am not ashamed of that!
 
@diplomat33 " I love my Tesla car and I love the tech innovation from Tesla. I am not ashamed of that!"

100% agree with that.

BUT I once was a blind follower of Elon / Tesla when I purchased my first Tesla 2015 Model S on the premise / promise of what AP1 WOULD be. Once it became painfully obvious that AP1 would be ditched and then new promises came out for AP2 I bought an S100D. Well we all know where those videos and product descriptions have brought us to. I no longer blindly follow and protect Elon and his tweets OR Tesla and its website descriptions. You don't hear me complaining about my Model X much because I got what I paid for. My model S though....not so much.
 
I think that it's one thing to be a Tesla fan and be excited for their progress. Clearly the company has done many things right. It's basically a startup automaker that has disrupted the industry. But blind fanaticism and apologism harms the entire customer base for reasons that should be obvious. Instead of lapping up all of the hype and exaggerated promises, how about we demand good decisionmaking, reasonable claims, and fair updates on the company's progress? Is it that much to ask?
 
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