Elon: "Feature complete for full self driving this year"

[diplomat33]

No. The pricelist and catalogue are very clear. They are selling Level 2 aids. There is none of the Traffic-jam Pilot interior hardware. (Lidar is in the car for the Level 2 features.)

Well, the media sure did some hyping then since they claimed that Audi was first with a L3 car:
Audi introduces its level 3 semi-autonomous A8

 

[zmarty]

Huge difference to Tesla: Audi never pre-sold this feature. Audi A8 does not even have the physical AI button until the feature ships, so they are not pre-promising at all. They are not selling anything other than they are shipping.

What about that huge victory lap Audi took in the press with this obviously BS feature that never shipped? Just go read some of the articles, sure does sound like a lot of promising to me from Audi. And then you have Bladerskb which used this Audi press tour to scream from the rooftops how Tesla is behind everybody.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

What about that huge victory lap Audi took in the press with this obviously BS feature that never shipped? Just go read some of the articles, sure does sound like a lot of promising to me from Audi. And then you have Bladerskb which used this Audi press tour to scream from the rooftops how Tesla is behind everybody.

I can't blame Blader for feasting on Tesla to improve his score card.

When it's not about Tesla his score card isn't so good.

Four Upcoming Self Driving Level 3 Cars by 2019

 

[iTech]

I can't blame Blader for feasting on Tesla to improve his score card.

When it's not about Tesla his score card isn't so good.

Four Upcoming Self Driving Level 3 Cars by 2019

To be fair, it's because of Tesla's CEO that he's able to do so.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Well, the media sure did some hyping then since they claimed that Audi was first with a L3 car:
Audi introduces its level 3 semi-autonomous A8

I think one of the issues is the way Tesla does marketing, and the way Audi does marketing.

In terms of selling the car it looks like electronblue might be right, and that customers can't even upgrade their cars. To me that seems a bit silly since all the hardware is there (or a placeholder for it like the button). So I don't get that decision, but I only have information provided by electronblue on it. Not even Blader has given us as good of info on it as electronblue.

In any case Audi still played the marketing hand strongly.

Tesla is used to selling cars on the promise of future capabilities. That's a big part of Elon's approach.

I'm both angered that they sold FSD when they did, and how they did. But, I also understand the approach even though I disagree with it.

Angered because I felt like it devalued my AP1 vehicle as it wasn't "self-driving capable"

But, understood as FSD was going to be a journey that we can't possibly predict what it's going to be like. I just wish Tesla was more honest about the approach.

In terms of disastrous things done Tesla still doesn't even come close to the LIE that Audi's parent company did. I'm going to be sitting there at an Audi dealer looking at an E-tron where I'n wondering should I give my money to this company? Just like when I bought my P3D I thought for a second of "I hate this FSD so why exactly am I giving them money?".

 

[diplomat33]

I think one of the issues is the way Tesla does marketing, and the way Audi does marketing.

In terms of selling the car it looks like electronblue might be right, and that customers can't even upgrade their cars. To me that seems a bit silly since all the hardware is there (or a placeholder for it like the button). So I don't get that decision, but I only have information provided by electronblue on it. Not even Blader has given us as good of info on it as electronblue.

In any case Audi still played the marketing hand strongly.

Tesla is used to selling cars on the promise of future capabilities. That's a big part of Elon's approach.

I'm both angered that they sold FSD when they did, and how they did. But, I also understand the approach even though I disagree with it.

Angered because I felt like it devalued my AP1 vehicle as it wasn't "self-driving capable"

But, understood as FSD was going to be a journey that we can't possibly predict what it's going to be like. I just wish Tesla was more honest about the approach.

In terms of disastrous things done Tesla still doesn't even come close to the LIE that Audi's parent company did. I'm going to be sitting there at an Audi dealer looking at an E-tron where I'n wondering should I give my money to this company? Just like when I bought my P3D I thought for a second of "I hate this FSD so why exactly am I giving them money?".

Yeah, if you can't upgrade your Audi that would really suck. At least, Tesla has been able to deliver some features after the fact with software updates. There have been plenty of features that were not available at time of delivery that we've gotten later. And Tesla will give owners the AP3 chip upgrade for free. If you buy an Audi A8 because the press touts it as L3 and then you discover that your car will not be L3 and you have to buy a new car to get L3, that's horrible, if that is what happens.

 

[diplomat33]

Frankly, maybe the term "Full Self-Driving" itself should not be used. Yes, L5 autonomy would be Full Self-Driving but the reality is that nobody has achieved that yet. And companies may produce really excellent self-driving that is everything a customer needs without being Full Self-Driving. So, it might be better to talk about individual features instead. Say, "the car can stop and go at traffic lights" or "the car can navigate intersections". That way, the customer can know exactly what the car can do.

 

[mongo]

Frankly, maybe the term "Full Self-Driving" itself should not be used. Yes, L5 autonomy would be Full Self-Driving but the reality is that nobody has achieved that yet. And companies may produce really excellent self-driving that is everything a customer needs without being Full Self-Driving. So, it might be better to talk about individual features instead. Say, "the car can stop and go at traffic lights" or "the car can navigate intersections". That way, the customer can know exactly what the car can do.

Right, which are the listed (and coming soon) features in the FSD package (which is intended to be true FSD eventually)

 

[diplomat33]

Right, which are the listed (and coming soon) features in the FSD package (which is intended to be true FSD eventually)

Yes, which is why I love the new features list on the FSD order page. It is a much better way of describing the "FSD" package than what Tesla had before.

 

[diplomat33]

Maybe a little off topic but since NOA is classified as a FSD feature, I'll mention it here. In the latest 2019.5 update, NOA now let's you delay an auto lane change with a tap on the screen. It would make sense that this change is preparing for removing the stalk confirmation. After all, a delay button is not needed now when you can just ignore the auto lane change suggestion. But if Tesla does make it an option to remove the stalk confirmation, it would make sense that you can delay the lane change or do nothing and let the car make the lane change.

 

[BAven8068]

Maybe a little off topic but since NOA is classified as a FSD feature, I'll mention it here. In the latest 2019.5 update, NOA now let's you delay an auto lane change with a tap on the screen. It would make sense that this change is preparing for removing the stalk confirmation. After all, a delay button is not needed now when you can just ignore the auto lane change suggestion. But if Tesla does make it an option to remove the stalk confirmation, it would make sense that you can delay the lane change or do nothing and let the car make the lane change.

Your probably right, this is tied to stalk conformation going away, but if they don’t improve the way NOA currently suggest lane changes I’m going to be constantly scrambling to hit that button before it decides to do something stupid.

 

[diplomat33]

Your probably right, this is tied to stalk conformation going away, but if they don’t improve the way NOA currently suggest lane changes I’m going to be constantly scrambling to hit that button before it decides to do something stupid.

Maybe an audible alert? Of course, I would love for the car to actually speak to you, "lane change imminent" a few seconds before a lane change coming up.

 

[BAven8068]

Maybe an audible alert? Of course, I would love for the car to actually speak to you, "lane change imminent" a few seconds before a lane change coming up.

Yeah I’m sure it will give you the same ding sound it does now with a delay for you to respond, and then default to just making the change if no response is received. I just don’t see this going well with the way NOA acts now.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Maybe an audible alert? Of course, I would love for the car to actually speak to you, "lane change imminent" a few seconds before a lane change coming up.

The only way I see it working is if it turns on the turns signal indicator, and then it delays a few seconds (as good drivers do with turn signals) before it starts moving over.

Where it assumes you'll cancel it (using the turn signal) if you don't want it.

If they tell you before it indicates the hole in traffic might disappear. That's the third biggest problem I have with NoA right now.

The Model 3 also doesn't have a good way of indicating aside from an audible alert. If had a HUD it would be easier to use confirmation based lane changes.

I really hope it comes with ways to set preferences. Like I'd like madmax to be more than just the amount of speed differential. Everything on mad max should be more aggressive.

I'm a little weary that unconfirmed lane changes might not work well, and Tesla will only do it to hit the final checkmark for EAP.

So I really don't know what to expect.

 

[mongo]

Your probably right, this is tied to stalk conformation going away, but if they don’t improve the way NOA currently suggest lane changes I’m going to be constantly scrambling to hit that button before it decides to do something stupid.

Why scramble? Just hold the steering wheel, or tap the brake, or tap the stalk.

 

[BAven8068]

Why scramble? Just hold the steering wheel, or tap the brake, or tap the stalk.

Because then your out of autopilot, and with the suggestions it makes now, you will contanstly be taking yourself in and out of autopilot.

All I’m trying to say is that NOA needs a lot of improvement for me personally before we go to no confirmation. Right now stalk confirmation works fine because you can just sit there and ignore it’s suggestions. If we just go straight to no confirmation it’s going to make NOA a pain because now I’m going to have to reach up and hit that button on the screen when it makes one of its many bad decisions. One being When it decides to slow down 10-15 mph on the interstate with cars behind you, in order to switch lanes behind someone, when it would have been safer to just speed up a few mph and switch lanes in front of the car next to you.

I’m sure we will have a toggle in the AP settings to chose conformation or no confirmation though... just wish they would focus on improving NOA before they jump to no confirmation.

 

[mongo]

I’m sure we will have a toggle in the AP settings to chose conformation or no confirmation though... just wish they would focus on improving NOA before they jump to no confirmation.

UI side of things is likely during on a different schedule that the AP side of things. Plus, it is a different group of people.

March 14th release may bring improvements.

 

[diplomat33]

Saw this on facebook. Take it with a grain of salt as always since it is not official.

"UPDATE OF FSD/HW3: just spoke to Tesla and asked if FSD will include HW3. Supervisors answer “ right now we don’t know. They are testing HW2 and 2.5 to see if they can handle FSD. HW3 is not fully developed yet. We do not know what the results of testing will be so we don’t know if 2.5 will be sufficient or if 3 will be needed”."

 

[Bladerskb]

The only way I see it working is if it turns on the turns signal indicator, and then it delays a few seconds (as good drivers do with turn signals) before it starts moving over.

Where it assumes you'll cancel it (using the turn signal) if you don't want it.

If they tell you before it indicates the hole in traffic might disappear. That's the third biggest problem I have with NoA right now.

The Model 3 also doesn't have a good way of indicating aside from an audible alert. If had a HUD it would be easier to use confirmation based lane changes.

I really hope it comes with ways to set preferences. Like I'd like madmax to be more than just the amount of speed differential. Everything on mad max should be more aggressive.

I'm a little weary that unconfirmed lane changes might not work well, and Tesla will only do it to hit the final checkmark for EAP.

So I really don't know what to expect.

It should use audio so you don't have to look at the screen to see what its trying to do. But unfortunately Tesla isn't that UI friendly.
Something like "changing lanes left" then it activates the turn signal before even taking any action or "turning right". You can then stop it by hitting the turn signal. 6 more days.

 

[Bladerskb]

Saw this on facebook. Take it with a grain of salt as always since it is not official.

"UPDATE OF FSD/HW3: just spoke to Tesla and asked if FSD will include HW3. Supervisors answer “ right now we don’t know. They are testing HW2 and 2.5 to see if they can handle FSD. HW3 is not fully developed yet. We do not know what the results of testing will be so we don’t know if 2.5 will be sufficient or if 3 will be needed”."

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