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Elon Musk is 'full of crap'
- Thread starter ishareit
- Start date
Humans have wipers.
Not if you wear glasses. Unless you count fingers as wipers. That's why I used to wear contact lenses when hiking: Glasses fog up in damp weather and you can't see the trail. ("Used to" because after my cataract surgery I no longer need distance glasses.)
GM built the EV1 because California required them to do so. But they never sold the car, only leased it, and they put the full force of their massive legal department into the lawsuit to overturn the requirement, and then crushed the cars, even when lessees offered to buy them outright. GM was dragged kicking and screaming into EV production and only came back very reluctantly in response to public outrage and the clear demand for EVs.
GM is the epitome of all the worst that the capitalist system can be: "Damn the country; damn the people; damn the customers; profit above all else." Every company wants and needs to make money, but some have at least a few compunctions and a desire to do some good while making money.
The Volt actually created a fair amount of demand for the Tesla because Volt got people addicted to what the car was like under battery only operation. It essentially teased them just enough, and there was NO other option other than the Tesla. So GM essentially birthed demand for the Tesla.
Would GM have listened to their customers to provide a battery only solution? Who knows.
GM does some amazing things, but is often absolutely clueless about marketing.
Tesla does a little too good of a job at marketing, and often promises things they can't deliver on. In some ways they had to in order to create something that didn't exist.
As to the topic at hand I'm not sure why there is even a debate. As far as I can tell every autonomous car expert has said that what Tesla has for HW 2/2.5 won't work for anything above Level 3. So this isn't anything new aside from the language used.
When it's all said and done no one really knows what it's going to take for FSD where a car can drive without anyone in the car, or anyone monitoring the car remotely.
I wish this conversation was just like so many conversations about Elon musk where we're debating a prediction. But, sadly it's not about a prediction. It's about an actual product that Tesla sold to their customers.
The only resolution I see is Tesla will eventually set more realistic goals for it, and they'll add HW at their cost to the HW 2.0 base.
When it's all said and done I see them achieving Level 3 with the FSD package (for HW 2 and HW 2.5 owners). They'll likely lose some customers due to anger, but most customers likely had tempered expectations anyways. Especially since the package is only $3K when FSD is worth tens of thousands of dollars if not more.
This really bothers you doesn't it? It gets under your skin, irritates you. This knowledge that Tesla is perceived to be better than it really is eats away at you like tiny maggots in your flesh that you can see crawling around just beneath the skin. The maggots itch. They make you feel sick - you can feel them chewing. They're going to make you crazy! You're going to snap!! You want them OUT! You MUST debate people! Get the maggots out! Tear at your skin, pick it, pinch - try to squeeze the little Tesla lies until they pop - puss oozing out with sweet relief as you roll your eyes back into your skull, your stomach muscles tensing with pain. Almost got it now - squeeze it - squeeze that maggot lie - hurts - they won't listen (oh WHY won't they LISTEN to me?) - one more lie popped - uhhhhhhhh, uhhhhhh - feels sooo good. Feel the puss of truth get out. You go slack in your chair, sleepy now. Time for a nap. But they multiply - those lying Tesla maggots - while you sleep. They'll be there when you wake @Bladerskb - oh yes they will - making your face itch. Scratch it now - god - they're in your eyeballs invading your dreams! God - god you people - why did you make me do this? Howww mannyy times must I be right??????????????? :stab stab stab KILL KILL KILL: Arrrgggghhh my eyyyesssss!!!!!!!!
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
That's why I got Lasiks
Actually had a lot of reasons for getting Lasiks, but that was one of the main ones.
Anyways that joke was really at the heart of why I have issues with relying too much on cameras. Now I do acknowledge that so far from what we've seen in the HW 2.5 capabilities topic that the cameras are better in the rain than I expected.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Mission E? Heck, the recent spy shots even show Porsche is directly benchmarking against the Model S and X.
Also Jaguar I-pace (aimed clearly at X).
Krugerrand
Meow
I didn’t say his point wasn’t valid. Simply wasn’t letting him get away with making one side of the argument, which was presented specifically negatively. No, I don’t care that it was negative in and of itself, but rather that he specifically chose to ignore the other side of the point.
Krugerrand
Meow
Apparently for you everything is a tactic. I'd just rather get along.
I had no disagreement with your message about Tesla's history not proving them wrong on autonomous either (true) - a good valid clarification from you which I replied sincerely.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
20 years? Most experts on this subject agree that Level 4 will be available in less than 5 years. According to NHTSA (SAE), L4 is considered "highly autonomous", so I am not sure how that compares to "true autonomous". But I think we can all agree the L4 alone will improve the safety of driving. Then the question is; will it really take 15 more years to go from L4 to L5?
Euro automakers are still marketing sketches and stage props of Tesla Model S/X competitors, but so far, nobody has produced one.
As far as non-Tesla EV automakers, the actual EV/EREV producers, they seem to be targeting Toyota's Prius still.
It will be interesting to see what is under that cover that looks like a Vette in the GM Battery Lab.
I think you guys shouldn't dismiss Renault Zoe (just because it is not a thing in the U.S). If we count Leaf, we must count Zoe.
And if we talk high-end, we must count Rimac. People keep forgetting these, perhaps because they are not a thing in the U.S.
Other than that, I completely agree most of the industry has been ignoring EVs way too much and Tesla has single-handedly forced a change. (Audi did have the e-tron project pre-dating Tesla's rise, but they walked back on that infamously - only to change their mind and sell a few after Tesla's success.)
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All car companies were required to produce EVs, not just GM. GM was only the only one to actually produce one from scratch. At 183 mph, the EV1 (Impact) is still faster than any other production (over 500 units) EV ever made at any price.
The EV1 made Time Magazine's Fifty Worst Cars Of All Time list. Look it up.
Making the assumption that GM was the only car company on Earth, and that EV technology was workable in 1997 does not match history.
But keep up the Big Foot and Elvis sightings. They are great!
Yeah, the first English/German premium competitors to Model S/X are planned for 2018 - not any earlier anyway.
We have had a few BEV entrants in the supercar type of vehicle category, e.g. Rimac's offerings and Audi's first e-tron, all of which have been sold in limited numbers.
Other than that, it has been the Japanese (Nissan) and the French (Renault) that have produced serious volume BEVs. Excluding clear compliace vehicles, the U.S. (e.g. Bolt), the Germans (e.g. BMW and Volkswagen) and the Koreans (Hyundai) have dabbled in the space...
Obviously Tesla has been pulling and pushing the industry to the future much by themselves.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Not yet, but they are clear examples of following Tesla's footsteps.
There are also other startups that tried to copy Tesla's formula with Model S/X (I excluded them originally, but just to be complete):
Faraday Future, Lucid Motors, Thunder Power, Alcraft GT
These are Roadster inspired:
Detroit Electric, Lightning GT, Mercedes SLS Electric Drive (already mentioned: Rimac, Audi e-Tron)
hacer
Active Member
Well, there for sure would not have been an EV1 without the California Air Resources Board. It wasn't Elon, but no way in hell was GM going to do it without strong external forces.
Ulmo
Active Member
Well, after they finished with the quality Grade A FUD and all the lower grades of FUD after that, they had to start scooping out the bottom of the bucket, and that's all the FUD they had left. That's a good sign!
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