Elon Musk: Model S, Model X production continues for ‘sentimental reasons’

[tonybelding]

General question, does it make sense to wait to get a Model S brand new now or just to wait until the refresh, whenever it happens?

I thought Raven was a very satisfying refresh — but it seemed like most of the folks who were already wringing their hands over "Should I wait for the refresh?" just ignored that and kept right on wringing their hands.

What do we actually want or expect in a refresh at this point?

PLAID powertrain? Well, we know that’s in the works, although it might be A While. Personally, I am not a drag racer and feel like the Long Range version is already plenty quick for my needs. And if you are really determined to be the fastest, shouldn’t you be holding out for the new Roadster anyhow?

New battery technology, improved cooling, more capacity, faster charging? Ehh… OK. I’m quite sure the S and X at least need to catch up with 3’s charging speed, the sooner the better. It’s not right for them to lag behind in such a basic metric. For me personally, though, given my driving and charging habits, this is not a big deal. If you take long road trips with impatient kids in the back seat, then I guess this could be important to you.

Improved interior? Rumors about switching to a Model 3-like dash and display seem to have fizzled, and I'm fine with that. I like the familiar S displays with lots of visual real estate. So that leaves, what? I guess some door pockets would be nice??

Exterior styling refresh? This is where I’ve seen a lot of whining, of a sort that I kind of understand where it comes from, yet I can’t really summon up a lot of sympathy. The logic seems to be that these are expensive luxury cars, and people who buy expensive luxury cars want everyone to know that they just bought an expensive new luxury car, not the same thing that their neighbors already have. This actually seems to be a major reason why other luxury car brands do restylings so often (although German cars are so stodgy that they all end up looking the same to me anyhow). Didn’t GM originally invent that marketing strategy back in the 1950s-1960s? From where I sit, it’s all a bunch of nonsense.

And then there’s the one thing I’d actually hold out for, if I thought it was coming: a Model X style “helicopter” windshield for the S! Sadly, I have no reason to suspect that is even being considered.

 

[wesley888]

Comparing to model 3, model S is only missing the charging speed. That's what I'm waiting for.

 

[whitex]

And name any other car manufacturer that even has a browser in the car at all? Or has attempted any of the things the current Tesla's are capable of?

I'm not sure that that has to do with the price of tea in China. You seem to be implying that if the manufacturer is offering a unique feature, it's ok if it stops working after they sold it to you. Tesla web browser is a poor substitute for proper phone integration, like Apple CarPlay, or Google Android Auto (which plenty of other manufacturers have), or even the App SDK Elon promised over 6 years ago was "coming soon". So no, they don't get an excuse that "nobody else is offering web browser, so feel lucky if it works one day a month". I bought all my cars with a web browser function, as poor of a substitute as it is for phone integration, but I expect that function to work since I paid for a car with that function. It's a real simple concept. I'm not sure what confuses you.

 

[whitex]

I thought Raven was a very satisfying refresh — but it seemed like most of the folks who were already wringing their hands over "Should I wait for the refresh?" just ignored that and kept right on wringing their hands.

What do we actually want or expect in a refresh at this point?

PLAID powertrain? Well, we know that’s in the works, although it might be A While. Personally, I am not a drag racer and feel like the Long Range version is already plenty quick for my needs. And if you are really determined to be the fastest, shouldn’t you be holding out for the new Roadster anyhow?

New battery technology, improved cooling, more capacity, faster charging? Ehh… OK. I’m quite sure the S and X at least need to catch up with 3’s charging speed, the sooner the better. It’s not right for them to lag behind in such a basic metric. For me personally, though, given my driving and charging habits, this is not a big deal. If you take long road trips with impatient kids in the back seat, then I guess this could be important to you.

Improved interior? Rumors about switching to a Model 3-like dash and display seem to have fizzled, and I'm fine with that. I like the familiar S displays with lots of visual real estate. So that leaves, what? I guess some door pockets would be nice??

Exterior styling refresh? This is where I’ve seen a lot of whining, of a sort that I kind of understand where it comes from, yet I can’t really summon up a lot of sympathy. The logic seems to be that these are expensive luxury cars, and people who buy expensive luxury cars want everyone to know that they just bought an expensive new luxury car, not the same thing that their neighbors already have. This actually seems to be a major reason why other luxury car brands do restylings so often (although German cars are so stodgy that they all end up looking the same to me anyhow). Didn’t GM originally invent that marketing strategy back in the 1950s-1960s? From where I sit, it’s all a bunch of nonsense.

And then there’s the one thing I’d actually hold out for, if I thought it was coming: a Model X style “helicopter” windshield for the S! Sadly, I have no reason to suspect that is even being considered.

I think some people are waiting for Tesla to catch up with other manufacturers with respect to driver using experience (not having to take their eyes off the road to find a phone app, or raise the suspension), or phone integration (Apple CarPlay/Android Auto).

Other reason not to buy a new Tesla (at least for me) is software quality (updates breaking things, even things already fixed before breaking again), vaporware (waiting many years for paid for features), long waits for parts and service - but a refresh would not solve those.

 

[tonybelding]

I think some people are waiting for Tesla to catch up with other manufacturers with respect to driver using experience (not having to take their eyes off the road to find a phone app, or raise the suspension), or phone integration (Apple CarPlay/Android Auto).

I've got to say, I don't "get" Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. I've never used Android Auto, but my (admittedly limited) experience with Apple CarPlay left me very unimpressed. There seem to be only a very few apps on my phone that worked through it, and all of those things were much better done by Tesla's software.

 

[whitex]

I've got to say, I don't "get" Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. I've never used Android Auto, but my (admittedly limited) experience with Apple CarPlay left me very unimpressed. There seem to be only a very few apps on my phone that worked through it, and all of those things were much better done by Tesla's software.

Different people use different things. I've had many cars with sunroofs or moonroofs, never opened them, never cared to even pull the shade off, so for me Tesla not offering a sunroof is not a factor, but I understand that there are people who do use it and would like to have it. As for phone integration, I would use it for waze, and for hands free messaging. Some, like you don't care. I have a friend who couldn't care less about EV's too, or the browser, so he picked up an ICE car (with phone integration btw). Different people like different things. My point earlier was that there are some people who like properly designed driver's experience, vs. web app style interface which doesn't consider the driver's needs, nor offers things like hands free messaging so you can not get a ticket for using your phone (in Vancouver BC, it's $2,000 for even having the phone in a cupholder within reach). Once most manufacturers offer something, it becomes expected. In case of Tesla, they are compares against other products in the same price range, and they seem to come short on most things other than the EV drivetrain (which includes batteries and charging).

 

[MXWing]

Suspiciously strong. Like he screwed up and went off script just prior.

Elon saying stupid spurious *sugar* on conference calls?

nah never happens.

 

[tccartier]

I'm not sure that that has to do with the price of tea in China. You seem to be implying that if the manufacturer is offering a unique feature, it's ok if it stops working after they sold it to you. Tesla web browser is a poor substitute for proper phone integration, like Apple CarPlay, or Google Android Auto (which plenty of other manufacturers have), or even the App SDK Elon promised over 6 years ago was "coming soon". So no, they don't get an excuse that "nobody else is offering web browser, so feel lucky if it works one day a month". I bought all my cars with a web browser function, as poor of a substitute as it is for phone integration, but I expect that function to work since I paid for a car with that function. It's a real simple concept. I'm not sure what confuses you.

I'm not confused at all I guess I just have different priorities. Enjoying my Model S daily! Yes it's quirky and could use improvement here and there but it's a combination of features and capabilities in the same vehicle that heretofore has not existed. So I'm okay with early adopter shortcomings. I knew what I was buying when I got it.

 

[Magellan55]

why need Waze when you can pull up teslawaze on the browser?

I doubt we'll ever see Android Auto or Apple Carplay on a Tesla - they have to give up too much control of the UI. For ICE cars it's not a big deal because it's just the entertainment system anyway.

 

[alloverx]

Will never see AA or AC because Tesla wants the data.

 

[whitex]

why need Waze when you can pull up teslawaze on the browser?

Because browser only works once in a blue moon.

 

[brianman]

Comparing to model 3, model S is only missing the charging speed. That's what I'm waiting for.

And better battery cooling. (Maybe fixed with Raven?)
And Track Mode.
And a diet of ~1000 pounds.

If all those were addressed and the pano roof was back, I'd consider switching back to S. I won't hold my breath for any of those things to come to pass though.

 

[whitex]

I'm not confused at all I guess I just have different priorities. Enjoying my Model S daily! Yes it's quirky and could use improvement here and there but it's a combination of features and capabilities in the same vehicle that heretofore has not existed. So I'm okay with early adopter shortcomings. I knew what I was buying when I got it.

By your logic, if Tesla batteries degrade 50% after one year, that's ok and justified, nobody else offers such batteries, and since it's an early adopter car, it's completely justified and you don't feel it necessary for Tesla to fix it.

 

[jerseygirl18]

Haha, probably a very limited batch. It sounds like his cash cow will be the Model Y, Model 3, Tesla Truck... Model S/X and the new Roadster may become low volume models

I have a 2019 X. I am in love, but anything less as far as creature comforts and accessories that come with car...would deter me from buying it. It's just past minimalist & for long drives the seats should have more positions than 12 & arm rests in the back. No coat hooks seems silly, but they are needed at times. So, the "Y" would not interest me...I think the comp has to appeal to all & not just become an inexpensive production car.

 

[Magellan55]

Because browser only works once in a blue moon.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but my browser has been working fine for maybe 6 months now. Comes up every time. Though from the forums, it seems the complaints have really died down too. Other than that it takes up too much screen now with V10. If no one's browser worked, you probably wouldn't hear about the new size being a problem

 

[jebinc]

Maybe I'm just lucky, but my browser has been working fine for maybe 6 months now. Comes up every time. Though from the forums, it seems the complaints have really died down too. Other than that it takes up too much screen now with V10. If no one's browser worked, you probably wouldn't hear about the new size being a problem

Same. Browser works all the time; it's just slow and the on screen keyboard blows chucks.

 

[Krash]

Browser almost never works for me. Maybe just after a hard reset. I am curious as to whether the live traffic update bug reappeared

 

[bob_p]

Musk knows they need to provide something comparable to Apple CarPlay/Android Auto - though it's more likely Tesla will use a 3rd party or their own implementation for "screen mirroring".

Especially compared to what will likely be standard features in every other major brand EV that will be on the market - Tesla continues to lag with smartphone integration - and would benefit from allowing customers to use Apple/Google apps, plus the ability to do basic features like voice-to-text and text-to-voice for text messages and e-mails.

Just because Musk hasn't said much about this recently doesn't necessarily mean they aren't working on this - they are surely tracking what the other manufacturers will have in their competing EVs - and this is an obvious gap.

And we shouldn't be too concerned about a single comment Musk made about why they are continuing to sell S/X... From a financial bottom-line standpoint, it's difficult to justify continuing to offer S/X - but the same could be true with Roadster (and the prestige vehicles from other manufacturers)...

 

[tccartier]

By your logic, if Tesla batteries degrade 50% after one year, that's ok and justified, nobody else offers such batteries, and since it's an early adopter car, it's completely justified and you don't feel it necessary for Tesla to fix it.

Uhm no... just ... no. Let's not get to far into the weeds. A functional browser is not anywhere near as important as the traction pack. The applied logic is not linear. Anyway I'll keep enjoying my S.

 

[thegruf]

Musk knows they need to provide something comparable to Apple CarPlay/Android Auto - though it's more likely Tesla will use a 3rd party or their own implementation for "screen mirroring"...

Elon stated upcoming screen mirroring availablility way back at a Paris Q+A session.

Problem is that mirroring is possible for Android but not Apple (touchscreen is not supported) and presumably Apple wont budge on this.
Elon uses Apple afaik - so it died there.

The other problem with the concept of mirroring is safety - likely too tricky to control which apps are available whilst driving.