Elon Musk on The Joe Rogan Experience

[bhtooefr]

Oh, and how about the entire automotive industry shoving faulty Takata airbags into cars even after they were recalled, because they didn't have anything better available?

Sometimes they've even used those airbags to fulfill recalls, necessitating a second recall down the line!

 

[SpudLime]

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[scaesare]

So I just started watching this... it seems like Elon may have had a cocktail or two before he started...

 

[AustinPowers]

Now that's hilarious.

How about the thing where all early Mk4 TDIs (model year 1999 and earlier) had the startup fueling map for manual transmission FWD cars corrupted such that at high coolant temperature and low engine RPM, no fuel was delivered? And VW never even acknowledged the bug, dealers instead just threw batteries and starters at the problem to get the engine RPM high enough during hot starts to never make it happen.

Or how most Mk4 and B5 cars had blocks of foam attached to the fenders during transport within the factory... but they left them in place during the primer and painting processes, and left them on the car, so they collected water, and then immediately rusted the fender from the inside out? And they figured this out only at the end of production...

[...]

Don't know what you mean. Never heard of such problems over here. Never had any either.

Then again, VWs for the US market tend to be produced to US expectations, i.e. big but cheap, with a lax attitude to quality, just like is customary in US cars. There's a reason you know why people over here laugh at Trump's "suggestion" Germans should buy more US cars "or else...". I've driven new American cars in the US. No wonder the US top selling cars are Japanese - Ford F-series notwithstanding.

 

[AustinPowers]

Volkswagen has a long history of releasing inferior/flawed products and blaming the customer for improper operation or some other BS.

Strange, how some twist the facts, as the complete opposite appears to be true.

If what you said was true, VW would hardly have become the most successfull automaker in the world. Why would anyone buy their cars if they were so horrible as you describe. I call BS.

 

[JRP3]

Why would anyone buy their cars if they were so horrible as you describe.

Who knows, people buy all sorts of junk. This report puts VW at #16, not that impressive.
These are the 15 most reliable car brands of 2018

 

[ceekz]

I hear the Volt is a gateway EV.

 

[The Blue Owl]

Why would anyone buy their cars if they were so horrible as you describe. I call BS.

Oh, I dunno, maybe they were misled by the enormous, careful, deliberate, very profitable lie executed with German engineering precision with the full participation of the highest level of corporate management, not just at VW, but across the German car industry, and propagated incessantly for years by ad after ad.

But, hey, at least the ads were funny.

 

[bhtooefr]

Strange, how some twist the facts, as the complete opposite appears to be true.

If what you said was true, VW would hardly have become the most successfull automaker in the world. Why would anyone buy their cars if they were so horrible as you describe. I call BS.

The two problems that you quoted applied to most Mk4 Golf-based (including Audi A3, Skoda Octavia, and SEAT Léon) TDIs with VE pumps in Europe, I believe (because you switched to PD much earlier than we did) and the earliest New Beetle, Golf, and Jetta TDIs here, and most Mk4 and B5 cars, respectively.

The hot start fueling issue... if you sat there and cranked it for like 10+ seconds, it would then switch over to a failed start fueling map, and start almost immediately, but you'd have to crank for quite a long time before it would start.

In any case, why do people buy these cars despite these issues? There's a few reasons, really.

• When the local competition is French and Italian cars...
• When the press is paid off to make Japanese cars look bad (emphasizing a lack of driving dynamics and therefore being exceedingly boring to drive, typically)...
• When the results of years of cheating on fuel economy test cycles are then used as the basis for new standards, forcing the Japanese to move away from their reliable and (for an ICE) real-world efficient powertrains for downsized-and-turbocharged powertrains that are less reliable, and in the real world less efficient, to "comply" with standards that are unrealistic for a pure ICE vehicle to meet...
• When the norm seems to be, "oh, it hit 100,000 km, time to send it to Eastern Europe and get another one!" - that's a huge one right there, it avoids quite a lot of the problems (not all of them, though)...

There are some US-unique problems - they basically stem from two main areas. Powertrains unique to the US or modified for the US (especially, in the past, automatic transmissions), and incompetent dealer service (I'm not even going to say owner neglect, because there's been tons of things that break that simply shouldn't, ever). But, the problems that I listed were all global design or manufacturing issues. The problems that @Big Earl listed were global design issues with a couple of engine families (which were very, very heavily sold in Europe, and the failures happen there too), except for the emissions cheat that didn't cheat enough and was breaking parts, that was mostly US-specific (although IIRC, the cheat more update was put out in Europe, too).

Of course, now Tesla is a thing. A bit harder to attack Tesla's cars as boring to drive, but there's other ways the European automotive press can spew pure, undiluted FUD.

 

[Artful Dodger]

12,015,862 views in a week.

 

[AustinPowers]

Oh, I dunno, maybe they were misled by the enormous, careful, deliberate, very profitable lie executed with German engineering precision with the full participation of the highest level of corporate management, not just at VW, but across the German car industry, and propagated incessantly for years by ad after ad.

But, hey, at least the ads were funny.

Now come on, do you really believe any intelligent person would listen to ads or even take them seriously? Everyone knows ads are BS and simply exist to lure you to buy stuff you don't need.
Do you base a decision as important as buying a certain car (which after all to most people tends to be the second most expensive purchase in their lives other than a house!) on ads? Really? I've never heard of anyone who would be that gullible. Perhaps when it comes to what kind of detergent to buy, or what kind of cereal, but a car??? Are Americans/Canadians like that? Certainly not the ones I had the pleasure to meet and get to know better.

 

[AustinPowers]

In any case, why do people buy these cars despite these issues? There's a few reasons, really.

• When the local competition is French and Italian cars...

Since when have Korean, Japanese, Swedish, Czech, Spanish, British and yes, even American automakers stopped selling cars in Germany?

Plus, VW's current success is based on worldwide sales, not just those in Germany. And that with people knowing about Dieselgate and still rather buying a VW than something else?

 

[bhtooefr]

AFAIK the Swedish cars are a bit more upmarket and aren't competing against VW's low end, and the Czech and Spanish cars don't count, they're Volkswagens!

Also the American cars that actually sell in Germany are basically German or German/British themselves...

And, right, lump the British cars in with the French and Italian ones.

AFAIK the Korean carmakers are making huge strides, though, in the European markets.

 

[Vitold]

Now come on, do you really believe any intelligent person would listen to ads or even take them seriously? Everyone knows ads are BS and simply exist to lure you to buy stuff you don't need.

Exactly, do not listen to marketing BS, German cars are not as great as they claim to be on TV.

 

[JRP3]

Now come on, do you really believe any intelligent person would listen to ads or even take them seriously? Everyone knows ads are BS and simply exist to lure you to buy stuff you don't need.
Do you base a decision as important as buying a certain car (which after all to most people tends to be the second most expensive purchase in their lives other than a house!) on ads? Really? I've never heard of anyone who would be that gullible. Perhaps when it comes to what kind of detergent to buy, or what kind of cereal, but a car??? Are Americans/Canadians like that? Certainly not the ones I had the pleasure to meet and get to know better.

You think companies spend billions in ads because they don't work?

 

[copyhacker]

I hear the Volt is a gateway EV.

Can verify. Bought one in 2012 because I couldn’t afford a Model S. Always referred to it as a Tesla trainer. Now have a Model 3 on order and looking to sell the Volt on the cheap to someone else who could use a little EV education.

 

[Dr. J]

do you really believe any intelligent person would listen to ads or even take them seriously? Everyone knows ads are BS and simply exist to lure you to buy stuff you don't need.

And they work--or at least the folks spending billions of $/year on advertising believe they work. Draw your own conclusions about the preponderance of intelligent people, Canadian/American tendencies, etc.

 

[AustinPowers]

You think companies spend billions in ads because they don't work?

No, I think they could make even more money if they stopped wasting their money on advertising.
If the product is strong enough, it will sell itself. Tesla being a prime example.

I never buy products I see massive advertising for, because then I know the product itself is not strong and or good enough to survive on its own. The ads I see online or on TV only manage to strengthen my position, because 99% of them are forgettable, a waste of time, for products that are either completely unnecessary anyway or can be had in the same quality (often even far better) for much less. Examples galore can be found for example within the product ranges of Aldi and Lidl, who produce no-name stuff that is nearly identical in look/feel/taste/user experience to products by "big name" companies, but much cheaper, often even winning against the big name counterparts in independent tests. And such products are never advertised, even if for example Aldi or Lidl themselves advertise. If they do, it's for special offers on "big name" companies' products. At least over here in Europe.

Ever seen an ad for a really good product?
Ever noticed there are zero ads for really high end high quality consumer products? Why is that? Ah yes, because these products are good enough to sell themselves, just like Teslas.

I stand by my position. Ads are a complete waste of resources. The only reason why companies spend those billions on ads is that they are led to believe their advertising works by companies who profit from doing so. Vicious cycle really.

Draw your own conclusions about the preponderance of intelligent people, Canadian/American tendencies, etc.

Indeed I will.

Disagree if you work in advertising and think you are doing a worthwhile job.

 

[clmason]

I stand by my position. Ads are a complete waste of resources. The only reason why companies spend those billions on ads is that they are led to believe their advertising works by companies who profit from doing so. Vicious cycle really.

Indeed I will.

Disagree if you work in advertising and think you are doing a worthwhile job.

Wise marketers develop controlled tests and can prove the results of their efforts are fruitful or not, often with a high degree of confidence as calculated by statistical significance. Just because you don't like to be sold by commercials or ads does not mean they are ineffective to a broader population. Perceived product quality (top shelf or bottom shelf) is irrelevant.

 

[JRP3]

No, I think they could make even more money if they stopped wasting their money on advertising.
If the product is strong enough, it will sell itself. Tesla being a prime example.

Tesla is of course the exception to the rule. Seriously you think the entire advertising industry exists because it doesn't work? Just because it doesn't work on you, (or me for that matter), doesn't change the obvious reality that it does in fact work.