Elon says no Central Speedometer

[sitter_k]

I think a simple speed only or range +speed display would be pretty simple. Again I think this is more about Tesla trying to show their innovation and design "courage" rather than cost savings or even time savings which I think would be minimal at best. But hey who really knows, I think Tesla will eventually see their mistake, realize that people DO care and will offer either a traditional speedometer or HUD on Model 3s a year or 2 after initial orders.

 

[Scannerman]

I think Tesla will "get away" with the speedo on the big screen - as in, it will not stop the Model 3 from being a success.

I do think the success will happen despite the speedo situation though, certainly not because of it.

And it can be an adoption hindrance to some customers, while likely not an adoption helper for anyone (i.e. this could have been solved cost effectively without increasing the price).

I would like to add a further comment, in keeping with your sentiments.

Elon has gone to great pains to eliminate and/or minimize all forms of noise, (either coincidentally or by design). In a traditional car, noise from the engine and and air flow offer a good deal of sensory information, pertaining to one's speed.

We have been told we won't care (to know the speed at which we are travelling). And yet we have also been instructed not to place implicit faith in the AP controlled steering. This begs the question-Why is the speed control deemed infallible?

Scannerman

 

[gregincal]

I do think the low dash might feel quite different and give a sense of spaciousness that would be ruined with a big instrument cluster hump. I'll wait to see how it all feels in person.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I do think the low dash might feel quite different and give a sense of spaciousness that would be ruined with a big instrument cluster hump. I'll wait to see how it all feels in person.

Then again, absolutely nothing would demand the instrument cluster hump to be big. It could be small and include only the mandatory. It could be a small HUD etc...

An idea can be taken too far. E.g. Apple has had its share of oversimplification over the years where an idea and religious zeal and following that idea has taken them beyond what is actually good for usability (some of their mouse designs for example).

 

[yesup]

I do think the success will happen despite the speedo situation though, certainly not because of it.

I am not aware of any car's success or failure which could be mostly attributed to the interior design.

But hey who really knows, I think Tesla will eventually see their mistake, realize that people DO care and will offer either a traditional speedometer or HUD on Model 3s a year or 2 after initial orders.

But the fact is that majority of the consumers don't. Most buyers don't care too much where the instruments are located.
This forum is not a good indicator - for example, there are many here who wish for or demand HUDs, while most of the buying public don't really care, and may not even know what's HUD.
BMW has been offering HUD for many years. And in this country, very few people opted to add it as an option when it was offered as a stand-alone option. Now BMW is bundling HUDs with one of the premium package, and only then it became more widely adopted.

An idea can be taken too far. E.g. Apple has had its share of oversimplification over the years where an idea and religious zeal and following that idea has taken them beyond what is actually good for usability (some of their mouse designs for example).

But this is is NOT a new idea! Centrally located instruments are not new and have been used in many cars with success before Model 3. And now using it with a display screen allows even more flexibility which was not possible with analog instruments.

 

[sitter_k]

But the fact is that majority of the consumers don't. Most buyers don't care too much where the instruments are located.
This forum is not a good indicator - for example, there are many here who wish for or demand HUDs, while most of the buying public don't really care, and may not even know what's HUD.
BMW has been offering HUD for many years. And in this country, very few people opted to add it as an option when it was offered as a stand-alone option. Now BMW is bundling HUDs with one of the premium package, and only then it became more widely adopted.

Again how do you know majority don't? 100k registered sight unseen. Another 300k after the reveal. Some time after it was confirmed no HUD or driver dash info, with the famous "you won't care" tweet. How many people know about that tweet confirmation? How many backed out or didn't reserve after? How many of the 400k are thinking "Naw they'll come up with something it can't just be the centre screen."

No one knows these answers yet, not even Tesla. If they do add a HUD or more traditional speedometer we will get some indication. I'm guessing that they will after the original pre orders.

Did anyone reserve because there is only a centre display, no HUD and no driver speedometer?

Agreed this forum is not a good indicator of the general public. I'm passionate about Tesla cars, TSLA as an investment, Tesla solar roofs, batteries and a fan of the company and it's mission. I want a HUD I want a speedometer, I want better interiors, but I will still get the car in spite of these shortcomings. Is the general public as passionate?

Yes the need for a HUD is much less important in a car with traditional speedometer and driver info, I can see why it wasn't popular in BMW's.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

But this is is NOT a new idea! Centrally located instruments are not new and have been used in many cars with success before Model 3. And now using it with a display screen allows even more flexibility which was not possible with analog instruments.

Upwards rising doors are not a new idea either, and have been used successfully in a number of vehicles, but there is still a reason why they are not mainstream.

Then there is the thing of how near or far the speedo is. Many central speedos in recent times have been far up the dashboard, so closer to the line of sight when looking out (e.g. Toyota Prius). Or they've had a secondary speedo behind the steering wheel (e.g. a few year old Mini Coopers).

Obviously most of industry has gravitated towards a speedo that is behind the steering wheel as well as further away from the driver than media screens, because looking down a bit to an object further away from you is is easier than looking down and right and as focusing on a much more nearby object such as the screen on Model 3...

What Model 3 does may not be a new idea, but it is also not ideal.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Agreed this forum is not a good indicator of the general public. I'm passionate about Tesla cars, TSLA as an investment, Tesla solar roofs, batteries and a fan of the company and it's mission. I want a HUD I want a speedometer, I want better interiors, but I will still get the car in spite of these shortcomings. Is the general public as passionate?

Quite probably it is, to the extent that Model 3 needs to be succesful.

Why? Not because Model 3 is optimal, but because there is next to no competition if you want a large-battery BEV at the price-point. Only when there is choice or where the initial market for large-battery BEVs have been exhausted, would an issue like this IMO be potentially a problem.

Heck, even Model X with falcon wings would sell more than it does if it was the only large-battery BEV on the market. It doesn't sell more IMO mostly because Model S is its competition and Model S is more normal and more versatile.

That said, lack of speedo and lack of hatchback will stop some from buying Model 3 - much more so IMO than the opposite would. I expect nobody to buy because there is no speedo/instrument cluster (i.e. they would have bought the car anyway) and the same because it is a sedan (vs. a Model S like hatch). Having a speedo and a hatch would have been easy obstacle removals for Tesla, and lack of them can be obstacles.

In the end, none of it matters too much - probably - because there is a thirst for a large-battery BEV and that's the most important part.

 

[shrspeedblade]

The thing most of us forget in this forum (myself included) is it won't be the performance, screen, the interior, the exterior, the trunk, a hud, the front, the rear, or the colors that cause people to not buy the Model 3.

The #1 reason will be because it's powered by an electric motor with a big battery pack.

Yet, on the other hand, among other reasons people WILL buy the Model 3:

The #1 reason will be because it's powered by an electric motor with a big battery pack.

In addition to that, compared to previous options:
-it will look good, not weird.
-it will be fast, not slow.
-yet it will get 100+mpge, not 25 mpg
-it will be capable of long trips, not a short commuter.
-it will drive like a sports sedan, not a 90s Camry.
-it will have lots of space, especially for its size, not a shoebox
-and most importantly it will be fairly affordable, not $80k to start

I think this is the least compromised car I've ever looked at buying, and why I'm not even considering anything else right now!

(OK that's a lie, but a Model S is a HUGE compromise in the affordability department! )

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I do think the low dash might feel quite different and give a sense of spaciousness that would be ruined with a big instrument cluster hump. I'll wait to see how it all feels in person.

And a much nicer view of the road for the driver.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

And a much nicer view of the road for the driver.

After a few months of the Model X, I am sick and tired of Elon trying to give us nicer views out front.

I spend more time adjusting the sun visor than driving the damn thing.

Whatever was wrong with normal? Why the weirdmobiles...

 

[anticitizen13.7]

After a few months of the Model X, I am sick and tired of Elon trying to give us nicer views out front.

I spend more time adjusting the sun visor than driving the damn thing.

Whatever was wrong with normal? Why the weirdmobiles...

The Model X windshield is a completely different issue than the Model 3 instrument cluster.

A nicer view out front does make a difference to me. I drive an 8th generation Honda Civic (design dates back to 2005-6), which has a large front windshield and low window belt line. The view of the road is fantastic. In subsequent years, Honda sedans generally have higher belt lines. The 9th generation Civic feels like one is peering out over a wall by comparison.

Having reviewed the prototype preview drives from March 2016, it is my sense that the Model 3 interior is no more "weirdmobile" than my Civic. The simplicity of the interior arguably is a lot less weird than the 8th Civic, which sold well for 6 Model years.

Compare:

Civic, 8th generation:

Model 3:

 

[Kurt'sX]

That's not the question at all. It matters not if it's insufficient for some. Insufficient means you simply go buy something else.



Pfft. Much ado about nothing. People just love to hold onto what they've known their whole lives rather than venturing out to try new things with an open mind. You don't know, what you don't know. And until we all live with a single screen Model 3 for a while, we've got no idea how sufficient or insufficient it will be. I'm stoked to go with whatever Tesla decides to do with my 3 and give it a go.

100% in agreement here! If car companies had followed the will of the folks at the time, we would be steering our cars using reins or rope like the soap box car I made as a kid and we would all still have pagers instead of cell phones. I honestly think we would do better to have voiced controls & speedometers and eliminate the center computer all together......."Go 60 Hal.....Im sorry Dave, I cant do that, the speed limit is 55!

 

[EV-lutioin]

After a few months of the Model X, I am sick and tired of Elon trying to give us nicer views out front.

I spend more time adjusting the sun visor than driving the damn thing.

Whatever was wrong with normal? Why the weirdmobiles...

Gee, my absolute favorite thing about the MX is the windshield, it makes all other cars feel claustrophobic. I commute into the sunrise each morning and into the sunset each evening and my MX does better with the sun than my 3-series BMW.... which is an absolute oven. And now I better say something about the M3 speedo to stay on subject.... the one screen concept looks great to me, keep stretching the boundaries Tesla!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The Model X windshield is a completely different issue than the Model 3 instrument cluster.

Of course. But my rant was about not trying to re-invent things that need no re-inventing. Like a good, normal view out the windshield that doesn't need sunvisors or you won't care mantras to work.

A nicer view out front does make a difference to me. I drive an 8th generation Honda Civic (design dates back to 2005-6), which has a large front windshield and low window belt line. The view of the road is fantastic. In subsequent years, Honda sedans generally have higher belt lines. The 9th generation Civic feels like one is peering out over a wall by comparison.

Having reviewed the prototype preview drives from March 2016, it is my sense that the Model 3 interior is no more "weirdmobile" than my Civic. The simplicity of the interior arguably is a lot less weird than the 8th Civic, which sold well for 6 Model years.

Compare:

Civic, 8th generation:

Model 3:

I do get your point.

Notice, though, how the Honda has the speedometer near the windshield so that you don't have to look and focus to a completely different "plane"...

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I do get your point.

Notice, though, how the Honda has the speedometer near the windshield so that you don't have to look and focus to a completely different "plane"...

Because I haven't sat inside the Model 3, I'm not sure how the egonomics actually work out, but I can say from personal experience with the Civic that the driver does have to switch eye focus between the windshield and the Civic's top tier speedometer. The difference between the Civic speedometer and a classic side-by-side instrument cluster is the distance one has to look downwards to check speed is far less.

When I drove a Model S, it took noticeably more time to check speed than it does on the Civic. Turning on Autopilot mooted the issue for a long portion of my drive, however.

If one thinks about perspective and lines of sight converging to the center of the horizon, the position of the Model 3's speed indicator makes more sense. It appears to be just slightly below where the driver is looking ahead on the road, which would make it even quicker to check than the Civic's speed. I'd have to actually drive a Model 3 to verify this, but from what I can see I don't think it will be a problem.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Because I haven't sat inside the Model 3, I'm not sure how the egonomics actually work out, but I can say from personal experience with the Civic that the driver does have to switch eye focus between the windshield and the Civic's top tier speedometer. The difference between the Civic speedometer and a classic side-by-side instrument cluster is the distance one has to look downwards to check speed is far less.

I repeat my point for clarity: the Civic speedo is closer to the driver's view out the windshield than Model 3 screen seems to be. Same with the central speedo of a Prius that is very close to the windshield.

Model 3 screen is more like the radio in the Civic. Not just to the down and right of the driver but far away from the windshield... so looks like a more jarring transition between looking outside and looking at speed.

This is of course speculation until we can sit in the car.

 

[paperjohn]

Speedometer directly forward ----
Speedometer to the right ---
My previous car a 350 Z had an analog speedometer directly forward and I never used it. What I used and got very used to was the digital speedometer to the right of the steering wheel. It was just fine and I used it a lot. As with the S, I don't drive in the slow lane. Model 3 drivers will be fine with it. Wait and see.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Speedometer directly forward ----
Speedometer to the right ---
My previous car a 350 Z had an analog speedometer directly forward and I never used it. What I used and got very used to was the digital speedometer to the right of the steering wheel. It was just fine and I used it a lot. As with the S, I don't drive in the slow lane. Model 3 drivers will be fine with it. Wait and see.

Once again apples and oranges. 350 z has the digital speedo closer to the windshield than its analog one! Just like Prius, just like Civic placing their digital speedos on top of the dash so the change of focus is less.

Model 3 places the speedo not only down and right, but closer to you than the dash itself.

Maybe the Model 3 speedo will work just fine but I am trying to point out many of the comparisons just are not very accurate...

350z speedo the leftmost middle circle. One can see it is better in the line of sight than the normal instruments:

Model 3 speedo much more to the down and right and closer to driver:

 

[yesup]

Model 3 screen is more like the radio in the Civic. Not just to the down and right of the driver but far away from the windshield... so looks like a more jarring transition between looking outside and looking at speed.

The distance is no different from a traditional instrument panel though, and no one complained about the "jarring" transition.