I think from all the discovery works it’s pretty clear that this was far from well thought out. No diligence, no advisors, financing that has been continually changed and now a court case that he is losing by a mile.
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Elon & Twitter
- Thread starter Buckminster
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Automotive needs to be positioning all the time for the future, and doing so with its best thinkers.
Set it and forget it doesn’t really work. It would be understandable if Telsa, which is now at the top of the world in terms of factory capacity, orders etc would take a moment to digest its meal, rest on laurels etc. But that is how you get to be GM.
They, and Elon, need to put as much thought and energy as they can into jumps in battery tech -- there are still huge gains to be made -- and how to expand the product line. CT is part of that, they need truck(s). But they also need to push into downmarket and figure out how to crack the code on models for the masses. Not necessarily to be built in the current factories, I understand the capacity issues.
But EVs aren’t just going to be the middle to upper pricing of the market much longer.
And really in terms of volume, all Tesla is is two models, the 3 and Y.
Elon seems to be relying on that quantum jump from self driving, with cars becoming little business centers and running around all the time moving people. That’s not happening, or at least not on any reasonable timeline. So, twitter... waste of time, money, energy. Corrosive to humanity, to boot.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Your proposition paints Elon as someone who routinely makes rash decisions with huge amounts of money and his business decisions tend to fail because of it. There really isn't much in his history that would lend support to this line of thought.
That is the thing about perspective. How things look always depend upon how you look at them.
The only hiccup I see was in not bringing up the bot argument initially and/or putting a stronger clause in the original contract. This resulted in employing a legal tactic to force Twitter to open a suit. Likely crafted by his legal team. That worked. It got the matter to court.
Upon considering the larger scope of the overall project it has now been decided any savings to be gained by this approach are inconsequential if it delays the project. Elon's attempt to whittle the price reached a point where he decided, screw it, let's stop mucking about in hyperspace and do this thing.
This is another perspective than the one you hold, and at worse, as likely to be right or wrong as is yours.
Time will reveal the answer. It may be completely different from either of these.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Implementing and testing will create new problems that need solving. Is every aspect of Cybertruck and 4680 production solved? When 9000CS comes in I'd rather not have Elon trying to fix Twitter.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
There is limited time in a day, even for Elon. Just because he has worked 120 hour weeks doesn't mean it's a good idea. We don't really know how projects have suffered. Maybe an over tired or distracted Elon came up with the Fluffer Bot that failed.
Why does it need to be "routinely"? It only needs to happen once to be a disaster at this scale. He certainly has a track record of posting some rash things on Twitter with negative results. Plus the obvious fact that he tried to get out of this deal means he himself realized an error in judgement, one that you refuse to acknowledge.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Just saying that the trend is your friend. What is the long-term trend with Elon and successful business creation so far? Might want to go with that rather than speculate on a subject you have absolutely no inside knowledge about. Sure, the trend could change, but it is highly unlikely it will be predicted with any degree of accuracy.
The arguments against the Twitter purchase being put forth are based mostly in personal fear of an investment loss. The counter-arguments are based on what Elon has actually shared about the Twitter deal. Which of those is more likely to form a balanced and accurate assessment of the situation, reacting to emotional triggers, or, consideration of the few facts that have been provided?
If the feelings you are experiencing over this are strong, perhaps you should distance yourself from any ownership in his future if it will ease your concerns. This would at least be an action that you have control over. Elon is gonna Elon.
The arguments against the Twitter purchase being put forth are based mostly in personal fear of an investment loss. The counter-arguments are based on what Elon has actually shared about the Twitter deal. Which of those is more likely to form a balanced and accurate assessment of the situation, reacting to emotional triggers, or, consideration of the few facts that have been provided?
If the feelings you are experiencing over this are strong, perhaps you should distance yourself from any ownership in his future if it will ease your concerns. This would at least be an action that you have control over. Elon is gonna Elon.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I mean, we literally have his own words and actions showing that's exactly what happened with the twitter thing.
That doesn't mean it's routine, but then someone who does not routinely make huge costly mistakes still can make one.
Also the fact there was never any evidence at all the mDAU bot number was wrong- and even one his own data analysts agree it was accurate.
But if you think that's the ONLY failure of due diligence on Elons side pre-contract you just ain't been paying attention.
This was a rash, stupid, decision that was laughable from any sort of business, finance, or legal perspective.
That doesn't mean OMG ELON DUMB.
It means a brilliant guy did a dumb thing in this specific case.
Your inability to admit even with mountains of evidence showing that is...striking.
.... what?
It went to court because Elon tried to reneg on a legal contract he signed without understanding.
Most of the claims of his legal team made had no basis AT ALL, and what little did were not remotely sufficient to void the deal, and he was going to lose the lawsuit in epic fashion.
Not sure how you keep trying to pretend that was what Elon WANTED. That makes 0 sense.
HA HA! I AM GOING TO SIGN A CONTRACT, THEN BREAK IT, THEN FORCE THEM TO SUE ME TO HONOR IT! HOW BRILLIANT!
And also because they would be imaginary since his case were terrible.
Previously he could've bought for 44 billion.
Now he gets to buy for.... 44 billion.... plus tens of millions in legal bills.... plus having heavily damaged the rep of the thing he's buying along the way.
That's a blunder (several in fact, though all on the same line).
None of this diminishes all the amazing things he's done in a variety of fields and companies.
It just means he's a human being.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
They go far beyond that. Some of us think that what Tesla is doing is important for our environment and the future of humanity. The faster it produces products the better. That predated the investment. However since I trust his judgement less over time I am also reducing my investment in the company.
For me this Twitter debacle has more to do where Elon extends beyond the core mission of Tesla / SpaceX and how those actions would be detrimental to that core mission.
From a business & engineering perspective I think his leadership and track record are unmatched.
From a people perspective I don’t know what to call him. Jackass is too strong but tone deaf is too weak.
Hard for me to tell where and how his shortcomings could blow up Tesla and SpaceX.
Much easier to tell where his support of anti-semites and dictators will blow up my decision to invest in his companies and actively support political policies and investments in competitors.
From a business & engineering perspective I think his leadership and track record are unmatched.
From a people perspective I don’t know what to call him. Jackass is too strong but tone deaf is too weak.
Hard for me to tell where and how his shortcomings could blow up Tesla and SpaceX.
Much easier to tell where his support of anti-semites and dictators will blow up my decision to invest in his companies and actively support political policies and investments in competitors.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Making a safe, secure, online place that encourages respectful discourse between people all over the globe, and, which could provide the ability to conduct all levels of banking and commerce easily, across borders/currencies, is as important for the future of humanity as is transitioning to renewable energy. It was someone like Jefferson or Franklin that said the easiest way to conquer another nation is via commerce, rather than war. Opening reliable channels of communication without distortion from third parties with an agenda seems like a good place to start.
Every thing Elon has undertaken has been done for the long-term benefit of mankind. It takes time for this to manifest in order to be able to recognize it.
But I get how if someone doesn't feel that way they certainly should look elsewhere for what makes them happy.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
...is the exact opposite of what you get with unfettered online free speech absolutism as Elon keeps calling for.
See also 4chan....or even worse 8chan.
_Redshift_
Member
I have to agree. When it was only Tesla, it was fight, fight, fight to survive and ultimately win. However fighting like that takes a huge toll. (I know from being in that place for the last few years) You get very tired, your family gets very tired, and life in general is very tough.
So, when you get the prize, you tend to let it all out, and that’s what has happened to Elon. His attention went onto other things, and being an influencer, one of the biggest celebrities, etc, went to his head. He is human after all.
He still has the engineering brain that can make great decisions and take great risks and still win. But that brain is now focusing on 100 things as opposed to 10.
His latest on how Taiwan should be a semi autonomous province of China (oh, look how well it worked for Hong Kong) is an example of impetuous decisions possibly made only to further his business interests. Short term thinking, long term loss.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Elon Musk and Twitter came close to a deal at $50 per share. Here's why it didn't work out.
Musk on Monday abruptly changed course by again agreeing to buy Twitter for $44 billion, the same price he offered in April.
www.businessinsider.com
This is what I suspected was the real sticking point. Looking like I'm going to be getting that beer from @AlanSubie4Life!
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
The beer was for “won’t have a trial.” Not $54.20!
Elon Musk and Twitter came close to a deal at $50 per share. Here's why it didn't work out.
Musk on Monday abruptly changed course by again agreeing to buy Twitter for $44 billion, the same price he offered in April.
This is what I suspected was the real sticking point. Looking like I'm going to be getting that beer from @AlanSubie4Life!
But anyway we’ll see about the trial. Only question is whether my “automatic” FSD beer for 10.69.3 gets credited to my account before this one is determined.
Hoping that I will bank that FSD beer this weekend or next week. That'll take me to +2 and I'll be able to weather the ignominy of defeat.
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Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Yep, there’s going to be a trial (about financing, not bots).
Musk is horrible at bluffing.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
This is good but I’m not sure it’s a scalable approach.
And here I was, fretting that Elon was going to need to deal with getting Ye back on twitter for “free speech” and he solved it with a phone call. I guess Elon is never wrong and Kanye has had a change of heart.
Maybe Elon can call Putin, MBS and Kim next week.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Obviously Twitter will not take up much of Elon's time...
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Are we sure he hasn’t managed to create AI clones of himself? I honestly have no idea how he has time for all this. Haha
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Glad that you finally agree about how taking a minute to Tweet while sitting on the toilet probably isn't a huge time-sink for Elon.
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