Elon & Twitter

[Boomer19]

Well that didn't last long...

So, am I interpreting this correctly that, as opposed to a lump severence, with no-work employment, Twitter can stop paying de-orged people if they get a new job?

or i’m also guessing if they break the employee playbook guidelines during the severance period

 

[ZenRockGarden]

I think the banks are...well...<expletive> bricks and trying to unload the debt ASAP, even if it is at 80¢ on the dollar or less, because they don't know what Elon could say a minute from now that makes the debt even more toxic.

I don't think it's surprising that Elon's rants and extremes scare off both advertisers and bankers.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

I’ve been around finance my entire professional career, and I suspect this is not what anyone at the bank thought they were getting into with this deal. Even the biggest Elon boosters have to admit this is (currently) one of his least impressive moves, and he’s digging himself into a worse place daily.

Now - he’s been near bankruptcy before and turned it around. His trust capital with the banks is probably squandered but who knows.. this is the one person these days who might find the light and turn this turd into a golden nugget. It’s been entertaining, as promised.

If only there had been people who saw this coming! That Elon has no common sense in the social media space and he'd be terrible at running Twitter while also distracting himself from what he IS good at with cars and spaceship design.

Wow. If only someone had sounded the alarm

 

[ElectricIAC]

Have some more laughs.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Doesn't Elon have anyone in a his circle or a trusted advisor that will tell him - dude, just stop posting on Twitter for a few weeks. When you are in a hole the first thing is to just stop digging.

Apparently he's surrounded himself with people like David Sacks, who are so full of themselves that they're simply unable to conceive how clueless they are about most things. That's just feeding back in to Elon's hubris. Eventually, Elon will say "Who knew it would be so hard? Nobody had any idea!" When, of course, everybody was telling him.

But he sees this as just the same as when everybody was saying he couldn't do a space company. The difference is, obviously, that he has no particular superpowers in this area. There are no first principles. He's not better than anybody at handling the madness of crowds. He's just another rich guy who can inspire tech teams to do amazing tech things. That helps, but isn't enough to solve this problem.

 

[BitJam]

But he sees this as just the same as when everybody was saying he couldn't do a space company. The difference is, obviously, that he has no particular superpowers in this area.

Worse than that, people with Asperger's are a particularly bad fit for running a social media company the way Elon is trying to. Running Twitter by tweeting may be Elon's kryptonite because he is often blind to social cues others see clearly. I always thought Elon's free speech plans for Twitter were extremely naive (unaware of the 4chan and 8chan debacles) but he now seems headed to an utter catastrophe. If he pulls out soon, he will only lose $20B or $25B.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

Boycotts absolutely are free speech! Voting with your pocketbook is free speech! The companies are still free to say what they want and advertise where they want. A boycott only works if a large number of people exercise their free speech by joining it. You almost seem to be saying that anyone who has an opinion that differs from yours should not be allowed to express it or at least not be allowed to express it in an effective and non-violent manner.

How the heck else are people supposed to express themselves? Was the Montgomery bus boycott also anti-free-speech? Or is it only anti-free-speech when someone boycotts a company that does something they think is bad for society? You seem to be saying people should not be free to choose which companies they buy products from based on the actions of those companies. We must turn a blind eye to the actions of any company lest we infringe their free speech.

Please explain what makes a boycott anti-free-speech. Is a boycott anti-free-speech if it involves advertisements? Or is it only anti-free-speech when it involves a cause you don't support? What criteria do you want to allow people to use when deciding where and how to spend their money?

Is not buying a Tesla a valid response to Elon's horrible tweets or is that anti-free-speech too?

You’re missing my point. I also support the right of companies to boycott another company. That is free speech. I never said anything else.

What I do not support is activist groups forcing advertisers to boycott a company, because that limits their free speech (where they can advertise).

You counter by saying that ‘the companies are still free to say what they want and advertise where they want’. That would be the same as me saying that it’s not problematic if you are being forced to no longer post on Twitter, since there are still plenty of other social media outlets where you can write what you want. You would be screaming First Amendment.

 

[STS-134]

What I do not support is activist groups forcing advertisers to boycott a company, because that limits their free speech (where they can advertise).

No one is forcing advertisers to boycott anything. The advertisers can legally ignore the activists and continue advertising.

You counter by saying that ‘the companies are still free to say what they want and advertise where they want’.

They are.

That would be the same as me saying that it’s not problematic if you are being forced to no longer post on Twitter, since there are still plenty of other social media outlets where you can write what you want. You would be screaming First Amendment.

Nope. It's only a 1A violation if the government compels you to no longer post or compels a company to no longer allow you to post on Twitter or anywhere else. Come on, this stuff is one of the most basic principles you learn about in civics class. 1A constrains the government. In the early days, the 1A only constrained the Federal government specifically (the first words of the amendment are that "Congress shall make no law..."), and is only applied to state and local governments by court rulings but this is not explicitly stated in the text of the US Constitution.

 

[ElectricIAC]

It's only a 1A violation if the government compels you to no longer post or compels a company to no longer allow you to post on Twitter or anywhere else.

Bingo.

 

[Bet TSLA]

So these people pressuring these groups to boycott twitter should silence themselves in the name of free speech?

We have seen no evidence whatsoever that there are any "activist groups" pressuring anybody. Elon just said it as part of a rant.

The only pressuring we've seen at all are threats from Elon "supporters" saying they would boycott anybody who pulled their advertising. And then Elon liking one of their threatening tweets. Seems you're sticking up for the wrong folks here.

You’re missing my point. I also support the right of companies to boycott another company. That is free speech. I never said anything else.

What I do not support is activist groups forcing advertisers to boycott a company, because that limits their free speech (where they can advertise).

You counter by saying that ‘the companies are still free to say what they want and advertise where they want’. That would be the same as me saying that it’s not problematic if you are being forced to no longer post on Twitter, since there are still plenty of other social media outlets where you can write what you want. You would be screaming First Amendment.

You seem to be very confused about what the first amendment is about.

—

Moderator (Right Said Fred): the first quote isn’t mine. Technical issue?

 

[Bet TSLA]

As I wrote earlier, what actually started the rift was Tesla not allowing unions.

This is false. Tesla has never not allowed unions. Tesla has certainly opposed unions in the US, but I don't believe that any union organizing effort has gotten much traction at any Tesla facility in the US. Germany has its own system, and Grohmann came with all the parts of that in place and Tesla handled it just fine. They seem to be doing fine with their Brandenberg operation too.

What started the rift was various Democratic politicians acting like fools and not treating Elon diplomatically. He's the best thing that ever happened to them for purposes of their climate goals.

 

[BitJam]

What I do not support is activist groups forcing advertisers to boycott a company, because that limits their free speech (where they can advertise).

Please tell me how activists are forcing advertisers to boycott Twitter. It's with a boycott! Are you saying mass boycotts by individuals are bad but boycotts by large corporations are fine and dandy? Are you saying boycotts are only good when they are ineffective?

If activists threaten violence or hold people hostage, that's a completely different story. But traditionally activists use or threaten to use a boycott which itself is a form of free speech (that you are trying to stifle). It is perfectly unclear to me which boycotts you think are free speech and which you think are anti-free-speech.

If a company I normally do business with advertises on a site I find morally reprehensible (which may be totally subjective) then it is my right, perhaps my duty, to boycott that company and tell them why. If you still disagree with this then please explain your rules clearly so we'll know which boycotts you approve of and which you disapprove of.

There must be some sites you greatly dislike. Perhaps msnbc or foxnews or 4chan. Do you want to support those sites by buying products that are advertised on them? Do you think you should be forced to fund those sites this way? Yet this seems to be what you're advocating for. Buying a product advertised on a site supports the site. If people can't boycott a product based on where it's advertised then they are being forced to support sites they disagree with. This is compelled speech, which is wrong. Very wrong.

 

[wdolson]

Elon's take over of Twitter isn't going well. One person my partner follows described elon as the Liz Truss of social media execs. There is a yearly conference where companies lock in ad buys with internet sites for the next year. Twitter usually locks in 15-20% of their yearly ad revenue here. This year they locked in almost nothing. Companies had reasonable questions and the Twitter reps didn't have any answers. They lost $700-$900 million in ad revenue.

Elon didn't go back to basic principles like he did with Tesla and SpaceX and it's going to bite him.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

The barricades are stacked high, that’s for sure. I’m getting a lot of corona thread vibes (and seeing a lot of the same people too).

You might want to check the mirror once in a while: the other side.

 

[cwerdna]

Elon's take over of Twitter isn't going well. One person my partner follows described elon as the Liz Truss of social media execs. There is a yearly conference where companies lock in ad buys with internet sites for the next year. Twitter usually locks in 15-20% of their yearly ad revenue here. This year they locked in almost nothing. Companies had reasonable questions and the Twitter reps didn't have any answers. They lost $700-$900 million in ad revenue.

Elon didn't go back to basic principles like he did with Tesla and SpaceX and it's going to bite him.

Not surprising given news like this:

Ad giant IPG advises brands to pause Twitter spending after Musk takeover

Since Musk took Twitter private on Oct. 28, the site has seen a surge of racist and other hateful tweets, according to the Network Contagion Research Institute.

www.cnbc.com

"Some of the agencies’ clients include CVS Pharmacy, Nintendo and Unilever. These companies did not immediately respond to requests for comment on the recommendation."

Ad Giant Interpublic Group Advises Clients to ‘Pause’ Twitter Ad Spending for a Week

Interpublic Group has suggested its advertising clients pause their spending on Twitter for at least a week

variety.com

"Interpublic’s Mediabrands represents top advertisers including American Express and Johnson & Johnson. among dozens of others. The company helps guide some $40 billion in media spending across the globe.
...
Advocacy organizations are placing pressure on advertisers. On Tuesday, 40 groups banded together to send a letter to some of Twitter’s top advertisers urging them to demand “the maintenance of basic brand safety standards and community guidelines.” Among the marketers who received the missive were Amazon, Anheuser-Busch, Apple, Capital One Financial Corporation, CBS, CenturyLink, Coca-Cola Company, Comcast Corporation, Best Buy Co., Disney, Google, Home Box Office, IBM, Merck & Co., Meta Platforms, Mondelez International, PepsiCo, Procter & Gamble, Unilever and Verizon. Among the organizers are Free Press, Accountable Tech and Media Matters for America."

https://www.fastcompany.com/90804758/twitter-advertisers-leaving-pause-ipg

"IPG, also known as Interpublic Group, has a huge roster of blue-chip clients that includes Mattel, Coca-Cola, Amex, and Spotify, to name a few. It is considered one of the so-called Big Four agencies, alongside WPP, Omnicom, and Publicis Groupe."

So duh, that resulted in Elon Musk says Twitter has had 'massive' revenue drop as advertisers pause spending.

Elon Musk’s Twitter layoffs leave whole teams gutted

“*sugar* is gonna start breaking,” said one current employee.

www.theverge.com

Techmeme's description of the below was "Sources describe Twitter after mass layoffs: key teams gutted, severance packages account for WARN Act, ad hoc directories of remaining workers in Google Docs"

Twitter, cut in half

ðð«¡

www.platformer.news

As someone who works in tech, I feel really bad for both the Twitter employees who got laid off but also for those who are left to keep things together w/half the employees gone and entire teams gutted. And then, you have probably some who survived but don't want to work for Elon and/or a sinking ship. And some are more trapped who are on work visas who can't as easily jump ship or to another job as easily esp. when many other tech companies are laying off or freezing (or at least slowing) hiring.

 

[mongo]

I'm starting to think that maybe Elon should have had a plan.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1588599808587345921

He did, and it wasn't 75% cut of employees, nor moderation team (debunked last week). Before that Tweet was posted, the overal number was reported as 50%.

Well, that was before the advertisers bailed. Now that half of the employees are gone, we'll see if they can keep clamping down on misinformation and hate speech. If not, more users will bail and Twitter is likely to become Sears (can't cut your way to profitability) and Toys-"R"-Us (failed because it was saddled with too much LBO debt).

It had been confirmed that only 15% of moderation team was impacted and review rate has kept up.

Twitter cut 15 percent of its trust and safety staff but says it won’t impact moderation

 

[wdolson]

Not surprising given news like this:

Ad giant IPG advises brands to pause Twitter spending after Musk takeover

Since Musk took Twitter private on Oct. 28, the site has seen a surge of racist and other hateful tweets, according to the Network Contagion Research Institute.

www.cnbc.com

"Some of the agencies’ clients include CVS Pharmacy, Nintendo and Unilever. These companies did not immediately respond to requests for comment on the recommendation."

Ad Giant Interpublic Group Advises Clients to ‘Pause’ Twitter Ad Spending for a Week

Interpublic Group has suggested its advertising clients pause their spending on Twitter for at least a week

variety.com

"Interpublic’s Mediabrands represents top advertisers including American Express and Johnson & Johnson. among dozens of others. The company helps guide some $40 billion in media spending across the globe.
...
Advocacy organizations are placing pressure on advertisers. On Tuesday, 40 groups banded together to send a letter to some of Twitter’s top advertisers urging them to demand “the maintenance of basic brand safety standards and community guidelines.” Among the marketers who received the missive were Amazon, Anheuser-Busch, Apple, Capital One Financial Corporation, CBS, CenturyLink, Coca-Cola Company, Comcast Corporation, Best Buy Co., Disney, Google, Home Box Office, IBM, Merck & Co., Meta Platforms, Mondelez International, PepsiCo, Procter & Gamble, Unilever and Verizon. Among the organizers are Free Press, Accountable Tech and Media Matters for America."

https://www.fastcompany.com/90804758/twitter-advertisers-leaving-pause-ipg

"IPG, also known as Interpublic Group, has a huge roster of blue-chip clients that includes Mattel, Coca-Cola, Amex, and Spotify, to name a few. It is considered one of the so-called Big Four agencies, alongside WPP, Omnicom, and Publicis Groupe."

So duh, that resulted in Elon Musk says Twitter has had 'massive' revenue drop as advertisers pause spending.

Elon Musk’s Twitter layoffs leave whole teams gutted

“*sugar* is gonna start breaking,” said one current employee.

www.theverge.com

Techmeme's description of the below was "Sources describe Twitter after mass layoffs: key teams gutted, severance packages account for WARN Act, ad hoc directories of remaining workers in Google Docs"

Twitter, cut in half

ðð«¡

www.platformer.news

My partner came across someone who consults with large companies about their ad buying on the internet. He met with Elon with a list of what he thought were reasonable questions and didn't get any good answers. He said that none of the companies are pulling back on ad spending due to advocacy groups, it's due to Twitter being unable to answer their questions about real world solutions to bad actors attacking the platform or trolling on it.

As someone who works in tech, I feel really bad for both the Twitter employees who got laid off but also for those who are left to keep things together w/half the employees gone and entire teams gutted. And then, you have probably some who survived but don't want to work for Elon and/or a sinking ship. And some are more trapped who are on work visas who can't as easily jump ship or to another job as easily esp. when many other tech companies are laying off or freezing (or at least slowing) hiring.

I worked for a medical instrument company back in the 90s that was horribly dysfunctional. The CEO was accused by many of being a fascist. His parents had settled in Argentina in 1945. I think they were literally fascists.

The turnover was huge. Nobody was really getting anything done because there were so many holes in the knowledge base. One guy on my team was trying to get information out of someone in another group. Information we needed to complete the project. He thought the team lead was playing hide the ball. I went over and started a friendly conversation with her. Over about an hour I teased out that she wasn't handing over the information because she didn't have it. A guy in her group knew it, but he had left a couple of months before and nobody knew anything about it.

The company had an internal programming language all their equipment used. There were only a couple of people left who knew the language. We dragged one onto our team, but he was a 40 year old incel who literally lived in his mother's basement. He had no social skills and only continued to work there because he couldn't get a job anywhere else. The rest of the team couldn't stand him, but we had to work with him because he was the only person who could do the internal interface to the rest of the company's equipment.

It was a pretty toxic place to work. I came across a webpage a year or so later that was a forum for people who had survived working there.

I heard somebody bought them out, which is probably a good thing for the people who are relying on that equipment to survive in the hospital.

There are a lot of Twitter users who are talking about what alternative platforms are out there. The good news for the small platforms trying to scale, there are a lot of Twitter employees available now and I would expect there are investors interested in getting in on the ground floor for the next big social media company.

 

[OrthoSurg]

According to Daniel Kahneman in Thinking Fast and Slow, the more people hear about a political candidate, bad or good, the more they are inclined to vote for him. Good or bad publicity will make a product more known to the public and will people will be more inclined to purchase it when the time comes.

I wonder if Elon Twitter saga is having the same effect.

 

[JRP3]

What I do not support is activist groups forcing advertisers to boycott a company,

Good thing that's not happening then. You seem to think activists groups have unlimited powers.

 

[JRP3]

The barricades are stacked high, that’s for sure. I’m getting a lot of corona thread vibes (and seeing a lot of the same people too).

We certainly had to debunk a lot of nonsense in that thread over the years.