Enough with the Games, already.

[Cyberax]

Yeah- not really though.
The car is already running Linux.

This is the most minor detail here. Tesla still had to add the wheel-based controls support (games are controllable by the steering wheel and pedals!), hook it into the car's UI, do the thorough QA and so on.

In particular, the games override the power steering settings, making it more powerful (I wish they had this setting in normal driving mode...). This change likely required changes in the Gateway module (or however it's called in Model 3) and it likely needed to be coordinated between two different teams.

Not super-major stuff, but nonetheless not time-trivial. They have probably wasted several man-months right there.

 

[CMoZ]

This is the most minor detail here. Tesla still had to add the wheel-based controls support (games are controllable by the steering wheel and pedals!), hook it into the car's UI, do the thorough QA and so on.

In particular, the games override the power steering settings, making it more powerful (I wish they had this setting in normal driving mode...). This change likely required changes in the Gateway module (or however it's called in Model 3) and it likely needed to be coordinated between two different teams.

Not super-major stuff, but nonetheless not time-trivial. They have probably wasted several man-months right there.

Not really once the wheel ad buttons are recognized by their linux implimentation as an inpud device which they have to do anyway it's simplya a matter of mapping which is time trivial. The UI needs to know the button presses and state of the wheel for features like cancelling Auto Pilot with wheel movement, Doing collision detection ( red highlighting ) in the UI when you indicate and start turning the wheel to change lanes. So this all had to be done anyway. Mapping those inputs is simply configuration at that point just like mapping a usb controller in Mame on your PC

 

[disapr]

Who else is excited for Fallout Shelter and Cuphead?

I recently went on a 1200 mile drive across Texas with my wife and we had a lot of fun playing Beach Buggy while we supercharged using two Xbox One controllers that I keep in my car for such an occasion. It was such epic timing that USB support for BBR2 rolled out to my car the day before our trip!

My kids always want to ride in my car vs my wife's 'not Tesla' because generally just like the comfortable no fumes ride but also because they love turning on Mars mode or rainbow road and playing the various games while one parent runs into the store to collect something.

My car way better now than the day that I picked it up, and the day that I picked it up it was the best vehicle in the world.

 

[Knightshade]

Well, you simply refuse to understand that people don’t like getting fluff instead of substance for a product that cost a lot of money.

Everything of actual substance you paid for you already got (and even said so in an earlier post

So your argument appears to boil down to-

I AM MAD I AM GETTING EXTRA FREE THINGS I DIDN'T EVEN PAY FOR BECAUSE THEY ARE FLUFFY!


Which...is nonsensical as arguments go.



.

I may have missed some people in this thread that genuinely think it’s the same SW engineers working on farts and summon.

Weird- there's been a number of them.

There's also some others who think it's paid tesla engineers "developing" the games and even if they're not "the same" ones they should just fire THOSE game ones and hire more summon ones- which is also a gross misunderstanding of anything actually happening. Guess you missed all those posts too?


Really seems like you're just skipping over lots of posts without reading, or understanding, them.

It really doesn’t matter. What matters is the final product and if many months go by with multiple updates that add games but don’t fix bugs or deliver promised features (where’s enhanced summon, really?) then there’s a problem.

The only problem there would be among people who don't understand how utterly unrelated those two tasks are.

Which are the people you keep insisting you haven't seen any complaints from.

In general, you and a lot of Tesla aficionados seem to be of the beta-is-ok and geeky mindset that evolved since the mid 90s.

Personally I have that attitude for free or cheap things. Like gmail or candy crush.

Given you paid $0.00 for any of the Tesla games I'm again at a loss to understand your actual complaint if that's the case.

The games are fun but if important functions are lacking or missing, it gets irritating. It’s not just about “games have nothing to do with other functions, you stooopid”.

I mean, it literally is about that.

Because complaining they're giving you something for free that is also essentially free to them resource-wise is a nonsensical complaint as relates to solving things that do cost them resources.


The only way such a complaint would not be nonsensical is if the person making it thinks that if Tesla was NOT adding games it would somehow let them make any better progress on the totally unrelated things they want to see progress on.

Which of course it not true, and again you claim nobody's actually thinking that way anyway.

 

[dmurphy]

There's also some others who think it's paid tesla engineers "developing" the games and even if they're not "the same" ones they should just fire THOSE game ones and hire more summon ones- which is also a gross misunderstanding of anything actually happening.

Bingo. Exactly right. Great post - I shortened the quote for brevity's sake but I agree with all your points!

Required reading for anyone in CS451; should also be required reading for this thread: https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~yfcai/CS451/RequiredReadings/MythicalManMonth.pdf

 

[Octo]

Everything of actual substance you paid for you already got (and even said so in an earlier post

So your argument appears to boil down to-

I AM MAD I AM GETTING EXTRA FREE THINGS I DIDN'T EVEN PAY FOR BECAUSE THEY ARE FLUFFY!


Which...is nonsensical as arguments go.



.


Weird- there's been a number of them.

There's also some others who think it's paid tesla engineers "developing" the games and even if they're not "the same" ones they should just fire THOSE game ones and hire more summon ones- which is also a gross misunderstanding of anything actually happening. Guess you missed all those posts too?


Really seems like you're just skipping over lots of posts without reading, or understanding, them.




The only problem there would be among people who don't understand how utterly unrelated those two tasks are.

Which are the people you keep insisting you haven't seen any complaints from.




Given you paid $0.00 for any of the Tesla games I'm again at a loss to understand your actual complaint if that's the case.





I mean, it literally is about that.

Because complaining they're giving you something for free that is also essentially free to them resource-wise is a nonsensical complaint as relates to solving things that do cost them resources.


The only way such a complaint would not be nonsensical is if the person making it thinks that if Tesla was NOT adding games it would somehow let them make any better progress on the totally unrelated things they want to see progress on.

Which of course it not true, and again you claim nobody's actually thinking that way anyway.

LOL, as a courtesy, let me give you (KS) an analogy that you may actually understand. Or probably not. In any case.

I think you’d be an AWESOME boss to work for.

Performance review:

KS (Boss): Hey Octo, how’s it going? I see the develoment plan going back three years to 2016 shows that you agreed to deliver an egg laying, wool milk pig. What happened?

Octo: Well, my team developed the most cutting edge gene editing system on the planet. Like CRISPR on steroids. It’s super awesome. Best HW evar. Just need some genetic code but that’s trivial. We are running betas.

KS: Cool. How’s the beta going. I haven’t seen the egg laying wool milk pig yet.

Octo: It’s super. The milk part is almost not sucking and we’ll release it next week. Really. The rest, well, we’ve just released Cascarones!!!

KS: WOW, amazing. Cascarones. Such fun. Confetti and egg shells in your hair.

Octo: Yeah, and that didn’t even cost any man hours from the genetics SW team. If that doesn’t warrant a raise, nothing will!

KS: Incredible, you are so thinking outside the box. What’s the other progress with the egg laying and the wool from the pig?

Octo: Well, it’s difficult but no worries, we’ll change the world and solve world hunger and save the environment with sustainable bacon, eggs, milk and fabric from one species!!

KS: So cool.

Octo: Yeah, the egg laying is showing great progress. The latest genetic code makes it produce brown nuggets in perfect egg shape. We’ll release it soon. But first, we’ll release another update with Chicharrones.

KS: WOW, CHICHARRONES!!!! Amazing. Everyone LOVES chicharrones. Crunchy and delicious. Always a party hit.

Octo: Thanks!

KS: No problem. Your team is awesome. Pay raises through the bank. Amazeballs!!!

 

[Rothgarr]

Who else is excited for Fallout Shelter and Cuphead?

I can't wait for Cuphead!

 

[Knightshade]

Complete nonsense removed

You don't seem to understand the thread.

Nobody is saying "Give the FSD team a raise because someone else loaded free games on the car"



This thread is basically 2 groups:

"OMG WHY GIVE US GAMES WHEN THOSE GUYS SHOULD BE WORKING ON FSD!"

and

"Uh, the games cost Tesla basically 0 and don't, in any way, impact the FSD effort"


Plus you, who seems to think there's nobody "really" in group 1 and you don't even have FSD yourself, but...you're still mad...for REASONS!

 

[CMoZ]

LOL, as a courtesy, let me give you (KS) an analogy that you may actually understand. Or probably not. In any case.

I think you’d be an AWESOME boss to work for.

Performance review:

KS (Boss): Hey Octo, how’s it going? I see the develoment plan going back three years to 2016 shows that you agreed to deliver an egg laying, wool milk pig. What happened?

Octo: Well, my team developed the most cutting edge gene editing system on the planet. Like CRISPR on steroids. It’s super awesome. Best HW evar. Just need some genetic code but that’s trivial. We are running betas.

KS: Cool. How’s the beta going. I haven’t seen the egg laying wool milk pig yet.

Octo: It’s super. The milk part is almost not sucking and we’ll release it next week. Really. The rest, well, we’ve just released Cascarones!!!

KS: WOW, amazing. Cascarones. Such fun. Confetti and egg shells in your hair.

Octo: Yeah, and that didn’t even cost any man hours from the genetics SW team. If that doesn’t warrant a raise, nothing will!

KS: Incredible, you are so thinking outside the box. What’s the other progress with the egg laying and the wool from the pig?

Octo: Well, it’s difficult but no worries, we’ll change the world and solve world hunger and save the environment with sustainable bacon, eggs, milk and fabric from one species!!

KS: So cool.

Octo: Yeah, the egg laying is showing great progress. The latest genetic code makes it produce brown nuggets in perfect egg shape. We’ll release it soon. But first, we’ll release another update with Chicharrones.

KS: WOW, CHICHARRONES!!!! Amazing. Everyone LOVES chicharrones. Crunchy and delicious. Always a party hit.

Octo: Thanks!

KS: No problem. Your team is awesome. Pay raises through the bank. Amazeballs!!!

Again as someone who's been working in the Software industry for almost 2 decades now this is not an accurate analogy.

And again no games/easter eggs does not equate to the other features faster. It also remains to be seen how much of the bottle neck is legal vs actual development work so this faffing about "durr durr games and easter eggs are ruining FSD" isn't backed up by anything and from this thread alone everyone arguing that not putting out easter eggs and games would speed up development of FSD somehow clearly had no idea how software development actually works

It's been stated many times in many different ways

• Adding people to a software project does not make it go faster. I've seen this borne out in multiple projects over my career and anyone who's worked in Software development for any length of time will tell you the same
• Everything that's been added so far in the area of "entertainment" ( easter eggs/games) has been things that objectively require little to no resources by Tesla themselves. What people have been doing is akin to thinking the Post Office did all the work to make your cellphone that you had delivered. It's nonsense

Succinctly what's the real argument against these things?

If it's "I don't want them" then well fine just don't use them
If it's "They take resources (money or developers) away from working on features Tesla already promised but hasn't delivered" That's incorrect
If it's "Taking the time to add games or easter eggs has taken time away from developing said promised undelivered features" that is also incorrect

And if it's none of these please explain. Like I said before easter eggs in particular are often code the developers used initially when developing things and testing out how particular different parts of the code and/or hardware work together and in fact may be non-obvious work that was done to make sure some detail worked as expected and within parameters for some higher function on FSD for example.

eg the fart simulator could have been an app used to test the viability of location based audible notifications for something like blind spot detection (keep in mind this is a made up example).

So you may even be arguing against your own interest. At least some of the easter eggs may be small tests of the building blocks that are being developed behind the scenes. Or they may be something an intern or dev built for a laugh on the weekend ( yes surprise surpridse a lot of engineers actually like their jobs and do that kind of thing ) I've had at least 1 weekend project that's made it into a product release myself

 

[cpa]

I have sat on the sidelines reading all the responses.

First, those who are in the business know how things are done from a technical and practical point of view. Others like me had no idea how the sausage is made. I thank you for educating me. But--you knew a but was coming--your subset of the general public is a minority. Most of us, like me, are ignorant as to these things, especially those of us who have zero interaction with computers in our personal and professional lives. This situation is similar to my professional career forty years ago when people saw "CPA" after my name and started bombarding me with income tax questions. I knew next to nothing about income taxes because I was auditing financial statements, which is what my license permits me to do. We are all ignorant, only in different things. Some responses here seem to forget this.

Second, I have tried playing these games while at Superchargers. I cannot get them to work except for chess. My 36-year-old son can't get them to work either. The instructions are sketchy at best (not surprising). So, at least for the Model S (haven't tried this in the Model 3), they are as useless as tits on a boar.

While I do appreciate the whimsy and mirth behind what Tesla does with this ability to play games on the touchscreen, it might have more utility if they came with a set of instructions!

 

[CMoZ]

I have sat on the sidelines reading all the responses.

First, those who are in the business know how things are done from a technical and practical point of view. Others like me had no idea how the sausage is made. I thank you for educating me. But--you knew a but was coming--your subset of the general public is a minority. Most of us, like me, are ignorant as to these things, especially those of us who have zero interaction with computers in our personal and professional lives. This situation is similar to my professional career forty years ago when people saw "CPA" after my name and started bombarding me with income tax questions. I knew next to nothing about income taxes because I was auditing financial statements, which is what my license permits me to do. We are all ignorant, only in different things. Some responses here seem to forget this.

Second, I have tried playing these games while at Superchargers. I cannot get them to work except for chess. My 36-year-old son can't get them to work either. The instructions are sketchy at best (not surprising). So, at least for the Model S (haven't tried this in the Model 3), they are as useless as tits on a boar.

While I do appreciate the whimsy and mirth behind what Tesla does with this ability to play games on the touchscreen, it might have more utility if they came with a set of instructions!

That is totally fair. I have no problem with people being ignorant of the intracicies of a particular area they don't have experience in that's 100% reality. I for instance have no idea how anything in Accounting works. My personal issue is when people (often violently) assume they know how things work in areas they have no experience in. I never have a problem taking the time to explain detail of areas I have some level of expertiese in. I just wish instead of assigning motivations, blame, consequences, links, etc and making assumptions they know the reasons and consequences of "x" that people would acknowledge they don't have that expertiese and just ask questions without presupposing they know the answers.

 

[chinnam3]

Though I do occasionally play Beach Buggy Racing 2, and Chess, others not really playable at all like some folks mentioned above.

But for me, more than anything, basic voice command which were promised by Elon years ago are more important. I have pressing so many options on touch screen( My wife's car from 2006 can do most of the stuff via voice command).

For me things like below are useful.
1. VC (Voice commands) to change between Chill<--> Standard Mode. (Auto pilot is smoother in Chill mode).
2. VC for changing Media inputs, like USB, Radio, Streaming, Next/Prev commands etc. Changing Radio stations, regular controller jumps to Streaming (Fav) instead going to next station.
3. Voice control for AC/Cool/Heat. Many times if I want to just run the fan, it is really annoying we have to go thru so many presses.
4. Improved Contact recognition for call by name.
5. Basic SMS text reading capability ( Its been there in many cars for almost a decade now). I missed few text messages like this as I do not check my phone while driving, causing me waste hours worth of drive.
6. Fix the basic Bluetooth transition issue. When I get into car while on the call, other party voice gets transferred to car, but they can't hear me. This has been like this forever.
7. Ofcourse, would love Android Auto though not must, and ability to review Sentry Mode/Dashcam footage.
8. Video playback capability while parked will be great too(not a must for me).

I do agree with some of the folks, how these games/side shows gain more prominence than main features/usefulness. I have seen it first hand. But from my POV, priority seems to lopsided.

 

[cpa]

My personal issue is when people (often violently) assume they know how things work in areas they have no experience in.

Yeah, this is an entirely different matter. Emotions run high, and some of us do not take the effort to cool down or reread what we wrote to state our point in a less violent or accusatory manner. Then, others get defensive, and the entire thread escalates into a urinating contest.

I have had my share of issues with Tesla over our five years owning our Model S and eighteen months with our Model 3. We have gotten f___ed and not kissed a couple of times. I have shared these situations here. But I have always tried to be calm and explanatory over sensational and hyperbolic.

 

[Runt8]

...
Plus you, who seems to think there's nobody "really" in group 1 and you don't even have FSD yourself, but...you're still mad...for REASONS!

It's hard to see the forest for the trees...

 

[DopeGhoti]

I see the games as providing two functions, both mentioned earlier within the thread: Firstly, they provide a moderately entertaining diversion to help pass the time at a charger (Super or otherwise). Secondly, they provide a harmless way for the MFD dev team to learn the ropes with respect to attaching the interface to other components of the car (e. g. reading the wheel and pedal positioning for Beach Buggy Racing, or the HVAC for Romance Mode).

I'd like to see an eBook reader added to the toy box for the former reason, though I can see the case for vehement arguments against it even given that you'd presumably have to be in Park to access it.

 

[Knightshade]

But for me, more than anything, basic voice command which were promised by Elon years ago are more important. I have pressing so many options on touch screen( My wife's car from 2006 can do most of the stuff via voice command).

For me things like below are useful.
1. VC (Voice commands) to change between Chill<--> Standard Mode. (Auto pilot is smoother in Chill mode).
2. VC for changing Media inputs, like USB, Radio, Streaming, Next/Prev commands etc. Changing Radio stations, regular controller jumps to Streaming (Fav) instead going to next station.
3. Voice control for AC/Cool/Heat. Many times if I want to just run the fan, it is really annoying we have to go thru so many presses.
4. Improved Contact recognition for call by name.
5. Basic SMS text reading capability ( Its been there in many cars for almost a decade now). I missed few text messages like this as I do not check my phone while driving, causing me waste hours worth of drive.
6. Fix the basic Bluetooth transition issue. When I get into car while on the call, other party voice gets transferred to car, but they can't hear me. This has been like this forever.
7. Ofcourse, would love Android Auto though not must, and ability to review Sentry Mode/Dashcam footage.
8. Video playback capability while parked will be great too(not a must for me).

I do agree with some of the folks, how these games/side shows gain more prominence than main features/usefulness. I have seen it first hand. But from my POV, priority seems to lopsided.

So I agree lots of those features would be great.

But literally none have anything to do with the games.

Those are all features Tesla would need to develop.

The games are all developed by people who are not tesla and they're ported to run on the OS the car runs by people who are not tesla

The only thing anybody at Tesla did was add them to a menu in the car.

As pointed out- even the "steering controls" were using stuff that already was done- the computer already knows what position the wheel, buttons, pedal, etc are in at all times- it has to for the actual car to work right.

 

[chinnam3]

So I agree lots of those features would be great.

But literally none have anything to do with the games.

Those are all features Tesla would need to develop.

The games are all developed by people who are not tesla and they're ported to run on the OS the car runs by people who are not tesla

The only thing anybody at Tesla did was add them to a menu in the car.

As pointed out- even the "steering controls" were using stuff that already was done- the computer already knows what position the wheel, buttons, pedal, etc are in at all times- it has to for the actual car to work right.

Hmm, I am not certain that all these games development, porting, security and validating all done by some 3rd Party. Hope that is the case where Tesla is not spending too much.

But I have not seen anyone coming forward saying they have developed, ported and tested these games on Tesla.

 

[CMoZ]

Hmm, I am not certain that all these games development, porting, security and validating all done by some 3rd Party. Hope that is the case where Tesla is not spending too much.

But I have not seen anyone coming forward saying they have developed, ported and tested these games on Tesla.

Actually I did point to the Beach Buggy 2 Developer Vector Unit's blog post announcing that they had launched the game on Tesla also see the quote from the article on mashable on the game THEY developed for the Tesla

"Ralf Knoesel, technical director at Vector Unit, explained how the game developers custom-built the game for the first ever in-car infotainment center and how Beach Buggy 2 is "laying the framework for future games" in Tesla cars. He also crushed me in two-player mode, easily sliding into first place. " Hands on the wheel with Tesla's new in-car racing video game

That straightforward enough for you?

 

[chinnam3]

Actually I did point to the Beach Buggy 2 Developer Vector Unit's blog post announcing that they had launched the game on Tesla also see the quote from the article on mashable on the game THEY developed for the Tesla

"Ralf Knoesel, technical director at Vector Unit, explained how the game developers custom-built the game for the first ever in-car infotainment center and how Beach Buggy 2 is "laying the framework for future games" in Tesla cars. He also crushed me in two-player mode, easily sliding into first place. " Hands on the wheel with Tesla's new in-car racing video game

That straightforward enough for you?

So you know it does not cost any money to Tesla at all? All these games developed by Vector unit for free(Really hope that is the case though)?

The interfaces has to open to give access, validate security, providing systems, support etc. Nothing is free ever.
Even if all these games are developed freely by some 3rd party, I am pretty sure, it would cost quite a bit support that development, and also to validate those.

If this is not really validated by Tesla, its even worst, out right dangerous.

 

[CMoZ]

So you know it does not cost any money to Tesla at all? All these games developed by Vector unit for free? The interfaces has to open to give access, validate security, providing systems, support etc. Nothing is free ever.
Irrespective of developers, I am pretty sure, it would cost quite a bit support that development, and also to validate those. If this is not really validated by Tesla, its even worst, out right dangerous.

Not really
They have to have security processes in place anyway to integrate things like Spotify slacker etc so they can piggyback off of that as well and you’re right nothing is ever free but you’re speculating wildly on cost with nothing to back it up. It’s far more likely that this was a mutually beneficial arrangement where Vector Unit got some publicity to spike iOS and Android installs of the game where they make their bread and butter with micro transactions. And I don’t get where you think all the support and systems is needed the model 3 runs Linux and the apis are pretty well trodden at this point the extent of support would be opening internal driver api docs which would also come with standard NDA agreements. MAYBE Tesla is on the hook for some final qa but that would hardly be a resource that’s even 100% committed as it is on the software side given the issues everyone here is winging about