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Discounts may be an option in Government fleets, but they are not in Australia for some business fleets.
There are many different ways these fleets are set up and run. As running the fleets adds cost to business (administration etc), fleet managers can reduce their workload by letting employees-drivers do all the legwork in setting up a lease, within given constraints. Often employees can find their own car for lease and negotiate the price, fleet manager just stamps it. Lease costs are passed to employees so they bear the lease cost and they are the cost sensitive party, employer not so much. There are restrictions on models and costs, to stop people from going wild. The whole scheme is just a tax reduction tool.
Benz
Active Member
The tax policy spokesperson for the Progress Party has now publicly gone out and said that the VAT exemption will remain in place at least until 2017. So, expect at least two more years of high Tesla sales in Norway.
Good news. Norway market is very important before other EU countries picking up.
The tax policy spokesperson for the Progress Party has now publicly gone out and said that the VAT exemption will remain in place at least until 2017. So, expect at least two more years of high Tesla sales in Norway.
Car4CivilizedAge
Member
The tax policy spokesperso for the Progress Party has now publicly gone out and said that the VAT exemption will remain in place at least until 2017. So, expect at least two more years of high Tesla sales in Norway.
Actually it says VAT exemption will last through 2017, until 2018. This could mean people can buy their Model 3 without tax very good news. Sales of Model 3 will be off the charts if it comes on sale in 2017!
very good news. Sales of Model 3 will be off the charts if it comes on sale in 2017!Right. Important distinction. And yes, we can expect Model 3 sales to be nuts in 2017. The new Nissan Leaf, the Chevy Bolt (if available) and any other 200 mile range competitors will also have insane sales.Actually it says VAT exemption will last through 2017, until 2018. This could mean people can buy their Model 3 without tax
2017: First year in Norway with a greater than 50% market share for EVs?
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Btw, is this just announced as a news?
Actually it says VAT exemption will last through 2017, until 2018. This could mean people can buy their Model 3 without tax
To just add my own thoughts to this thread about what is holding Tesla back in Europe (and Denmark specifically).
This first issue is the sheer size of the Model S. With it's mirrors extended the car stands at 219 cm's in width (86,2"). This is gigantic in Europe and a real problem from time to time. It does not make the car undriveable here but it does complicate matters a lot. In Denmark a BMW 3 series is seen as a very large car and it is like a super-mini compared to the Model S.
In Denmark a nicely equipped Model S would set you back around $102k, this puts the Model S squarely in the same territory as a new BMW 520D. So the car is already a in niche-market on price alone. Hardly anybody in this country can afford to buy a $102k car with great family cars costing somewhere between $36k (Skoda Octavia) and $61k (Ford Mondeo).
To further add insult to injury our prices for electricity are way higher than in the US. We pay somewhere around $0.30 pr kWh. This makes the Tesla much more expensive to run. I compared the running costs of Model S to a 320D here in this country and the yearly savings on "fuel" was around $850. So fuel costs really do not factor into the equation when you consider a Model S. This was with 20% of the power coming from the SC's. If all power had to come from the wall then the Tesla would have been more expensive than a 320D.
And we also have a "range issue". Simply put: We drive a lot faster than in the US and that puts a serious dent in the range. Most of our highway system has a limit of 80 mph with a more realistic cruising speed of around 85. At that speed the Tesla's range will drop rapidly. The thing that really saves the Model S here is that many of our distances are smaller than in the US.
Another problem is the lack of a trade-in system. Most families are 1 car families here and that means that selling your old car before/after the Model S gets to you is a huge hassle. Traditionally you take your used car to a dealer as a trade-in. If Tesla had a system to do trade-ins it would help a lot.
The biggest advantage Tesla has in my particular country is one they don't talk about much: The Service centers. Our car-dealers will nickel and dime you on service and repairs. Tesla needs to shout about their "one price - everything included" from the rooftops. This could really sway a lot of buyers much faster than anything else. Especially since we tend to keep our cars a lot longer. 10-15 year old cars is the norm here.
So to sum up what's limiting adoption in Denmark:
1. Size - it's way too big for most people. As a friend said (quoting top gear): "It's like a really long walk around it".
2. Price - Firmly in the luxury market
3. Cost of electricity.
But on a positive note: Inevitably when the discussion turns to cars among our circle of friends there is only one car they dream about and that is an electric Tesla. The Model S is seen as a dream car right up there with Aston Martins and Ferraris.
/Michael
PS. English is not my native language so please bear with any mistakes on my part.
This first issue is the sheer size of the Model S. With it's mirrors extended the car stands at 219 cm's in width (86,2"). This is gigantic in Europe and a real problem from time to time. It does not make the car undriveable here but it does complicate matters a lot. In Denmark a BMW 3 series is seen as a very large car and it is like a super-mini compared to the Model S.
In Denmark a nicely equipped Model S would set you back around $102k, this puts the Model S squarely in the same territory as a new BMW 520D. So the car is already a in niche-market on price alone. Hardly anybody in this country can afford to buy a $102k car with great family cars costing somewhere between $36k (Skoda Octavia) and $61k (Ford Mondeo).
To further add insult to injury our prices for electricity are way higher than in the US. We pay somewhere around $0.30 pr kWh. This makes the Tesla much more expensive to run. I compared the running costs of Model S to a 320D here in this country and the yearly savings on "fuel" was around $850. So fuel costs really do not factor into the equation when you consider a Model S. This was with 20% of the power coming from the SC's. If all power had to come from the wall then the Tesla would have been more expensive than a 320D.
And we also have a "range issue". Simply put: We drive a lot faster than in the US and that puts a serious dent in the range. Most of our highway system has a limit of 80 mph with a more realistic cruising speed of around 85. At that speed the Tesla's range will drop rapidly. The thing that really saves the Model S here is that many of our distances are smaller than in the US.
Another problem is the lack of a trade-in system. Most families are 1 car families here and that means that selling your old car before/after the Model S gets to you is a huge hassle. Traditionally you take your used car to a dealer as a trade-in. If Tesla had a system to do trade-ins it would help a lot.
The biggest advantage Tesla has in my particular country is one they don't talk about much: The Service centers. Our car-dealers will nickel and dime you on service and repairs. Tesla needs to shout about their "one price - everything included" from the rooftops. This could really sway a lot of buyers much faster than anything else. Especially since we tend to keep our cars a lot longer. 10-15 year old cars is the norm here.
So to sum up what's limiting adoption in Denmark:
1. Size - it's way too big for most people. As a friend said (quoting top gear): "It's like a really long walk around it".
2. Price - Firmly in the luxury market
3. Cost of electricity.
But on a positive note: Inevitably when the discussion turns to cars among our circle of friends there is only one car they dream about and that is an electric Tesla. The Model S is seen as a dream car right up there with Aston Martins and Ferraris.
/Michael
PS. English is not my native language so please bear with any mistakes on my part.
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Car4CivilizedAge
Member
Not unlikely. But Model 3 needs to come online 2017, if not huge setback if VAT added in 2018.
I think loads of people will want to buy a Model 3. Model S already rated the "future" and "awesome" car.
Most people I talk to want one. And already two Model S owners in my extended family. Huge hype and a talking point in every family get together.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Given Model 3 debut in USA during 2nd half of 2017 won't reach Norway til Q1 2018. Even if VAT added it will likely be 10% in 2018 correct?
The full 25% VAT will not come til later.
And comparable ICEv will still have punitive taxes. By which I mean compacts with ~220 hp not subcompacts with less than 150 hp.
Car4CivilizedAge
Member
Yeah. Probably right assumption. Given 2018 is first year of VAT, it will not reach 25% until a few years later. Model 3 obviously will be success anyhow. Just the scale of it that might vary.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Model S is not comparable to a 320D much less a Mondeo or Octavia. More money but more car.
Petrol in Los Angeles is 0.73 euro/liter. My base electricity rate is $.13 per kWh. More expensive electricity in Europe but also more expensive petrol.
Flow of traffic in California outside of rush hour is 75 MPH even though speed limit is 65.
The average age of the US auto fleet is 12 years old.
Way too big? Model 3 is coming. So it will only be somewhat big.
virtuesoft
Member
I don't think that the size of the Model S is a problem for the UK. Range Rovers, BMW X5, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne, and other 4x4's are a common sight here. I would estimate that 20% of the cars on the road are either around the same size as a Model S, or bigger. It really doesn't seem that big to me, or to the rest of the UK public I imagine.
While you are correct that a Model S is not comparable directly to a 3 series or a Mondeo. Nevertheless the market that Tesla finds themselves in are dominated by cars that are more affordable by a wide margin. Even if the comparison is not really fair, but it is the only Tesla available right now. So Tesla is loosing out on 90% of the market right now, this will hopefully change in 2017-2020 when the Model 3 comes out.
At the moment diesel prices have dropped to about $1.28 pr liter. This really hurts the cost-saving aspect of the Model S when compared to most family cars here.
Another fact I forgot to mention is that the strong $ vs the euro makes the car way more expensive over here.
Specifically for Denmark the Model S is tax-exempt until 31.12.2015 after that a base S85 will cost somewhere around $215.000 at which point all sales will stop forever.
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