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Everything wrong with V11 update / user interface.

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I don't own the car yet.. but did have a 24 hour demo drive with v10 that i barely remember at this point. I'm really curious about how the UI in my car will feel to me.. probably much less objectionable than with current owners.

Anyway, i wonder about the truth (or lack thereof) of this statement - if something makes the operator FEEL less safe, is it in fact less safe? My gut feeling is yes (EDIT - for that person).
I would think the opposite...If someone 'feels' less safe using say v11 over v10 then hopefully it will make them take extra care when driving. This benefits everyone on the road.
 
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Folks, I am trying, I really am.
In hope to see some fixes I installed 2022.4 last night. According to the release notes, there are “minor bug fixes”. I haven’t noticed any fixes but now my backup camera lags and stutters - even after reset.
Has anyone seen anything similar? Anything to try (aside from using voice commands)?
 
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I don't own the car yet.. but did have a 24 hour demo drive with v10 that i barely remember at this point. I'm really curious about how the UI in my car will feel to me.. probably much less objectionable than with current owners.

Anyway, i wonder about the truth (or lack thereof) of this statement - if something makes the operator FEEL less safe, is it in fact less safe? My gut feeling is yes (EDIT - for that person).
You’ll probably be much less opposed to it. There was an auto blogger that reviewed it and very accurately stated ‘V11 is easier to learn but in most cases V10 was easier to use.’ (Paraphrased) If you never learned V10 then you don’t have anything to compare it to.

The menus are a bit better organized and the options within the menus are a bit better laid out, so if you’re not actually driving it’s better.

The point I and others have made is that almost universally, V11 requires more interaction to do similar tasks. Commonly-used features are hidden in menus rather than readily visible on the main screen and more of these features require you to hit a button or slider in the middle of the screen with an outstretched arm while you are driving (in a car with a very rough suspension) vs touching a button at the edge of the screen where you can brace your hand.

Touch screens already take more attention vs physical buttons and knobs because the location of items changes, you have no tactile feedback and if you accidentally touch the wrong spot you perform the wrong action. We know that distraction causes accidents. Any rational assessment of V11 would conclude that it requires more interaction and attention than V10. To conclude that it does anything but make things less safe takes some serious mental gymnastics.

I’m not going to argue that suddenly everyone will start crashing because of V11; clearly that’s not the case, but the thing about safety is it isn’t black and white. It’s shades of gray and V11 is clearly a darker shade of gray than V10 was.
 
Actually having buttons in the middle makes much more sense than having them right at the bottom of the screen. Your peripheral vision will be able to see more on the road. Looking at the bottom of the screen means your peripheral vision will be mostly constrained to the interior of the car. Using the swipe up where you don't actually have to look and then having buttons higher up is safer than looking at the bottom of the screen.
 
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Finally, I had a chance to listen to the 2021Q4 earnings call. If you haven’t yet - you should. It is an eye opener.
It is clear that, while the management is focused on EV cars, he is totally focused on AI (the remark about labor and capital was especially weird/interesting in a startup kind of way). In a way, he sees the car as an AI platform, not an EV. It is very subtle but it looks like they let him play in the AI field while they run the business. He is certainly involved but more from intellectual point of view.
There were some posts here to that effect and after listening to the call everything about the issues we have seems clear - they are super focused on scaling and AI. Making the cars better from a traditional point of view (quality, luxury, driver comfort, etc.) is not important for them.
Still processing the call but V11 is absolutely part of the vision; it will not get “fixed” as some of us expect. I would not be surprised if it becomes even harder to use from driver’s perspective.
 
Making the cars better from a traditional point of view (quality, luxury, driver comfort, etc.) is not important for them.
Still processing the call but V11 is absolutely part of the vision; it will not get “fixed” as some of us expect. I would not be surprised if it becomes even harder to use from driver’s perspective.
Yep, it seems clear Elon believes the cars should be driving themselves ("All input is error") and we should just sit there and stare at the screen (or out the window) but not push any buttons.
 
"It's not your car, it's Elon's car."

That is how I sum up my feelings about this whole thing. I love the car that I bought. But at any time, Elon can just change it. Maybe I'll like how he changes it. Maybe I'll hate how he changes it. Doesn't matter, I have no say. I find that depressing. Especially after spending > $70k on the car. Right now I can say without hesitation that I love the car less than I did when I bought it. And it has nothing to do with wear & tear, etc. It has to do with changes that were made without my consent, changes I would never have agreed to. And my expectation is that there will be more to come. Even if I love the next update, I will always expect it to get worse again.

I knew going in that this could happen. But when it actually does happen, it still sucks.

I still love the car. But part of me is already looking forward to my next car, which will definitely be electric and will definitely not be a Tesla.
 
"It's not your car, it's Elon's car."

That is how I sum up my feelings about this whole thing. I love the car that I bought. But at any time, Elon can just change it. Maybe I'll like how he changes it. Maybe I'll hate how he changes it. Doesn't matter, I have no say. I find that depressing. Especially after spending > $70k on the car. Right now I can say without hesitation that I love the car less than I did when I bought it. And it has nothing to do with wear & tear, etc. It has to do with changes that were made without my consent, changes I would never have agreed to. And my expectation is that there will be more to come. Even if I love the next update, I will always expect it to get worse again.

I knew going in that this could happen. But when it actually does happen, it still sucks.

I still love the car. But part of me is already looking forward to my next car, which will definitely be electric and will definitely not be a Tesla.
Yeah, I'm feeling the same way. Tesla's charging network is unparalleled but that will change at some point. When it does I think Tesla will have problems unless they make significant changes. Realistically, I've only taken one road trip with my MY and aside from that only used Superchargers a few times so I don't know how much it really matters for my use.

The Mercedes EQS looks very nice. Of course You'd have to deal with a Mercedes dealer then, but Tesla service centers aren't really rocking it, either.
 
Another interesting point from the call. It seems that they have bought in the shared economy concept. In fact, Elon mentioned that self driving car will have an increased value. Not because of the feature itself but because of the higher utilization (like the airplanes). So, not just automation but also shared resources. He seems to be very hot on the robo taxi.
They are definitely thinking how to switch to more subscription driven revenue (like almost every company out there :) ). The CFO mentioned that they loved the revenue from FSD subscriptions.

It looks like the vision is a shared, self driven resource that one can subscribe to. Much closer to the airlines than the “traditional” car manufacturers.
 
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"It's not your car, it's Elon's car."

That is how I sum up my feelings about this whole thing. I love the car that I bought. But at any time, Elon can just change it. Maybe I'll like how he changes it. Maybe I'll hate how he changes it. Doesn't matter, I have no say. I find that depressing. Especially after spending > $70k on the car. Right now I can say without hesitation that I love the car less than I did when I bought it. And it has nothing to do with wear & tear, etc. It has to do with changes that were made without my consent, changes I would never have agreed to. And my expectation is that there will be more to come. Even if I love the next update, I will always expect it to get worse again.

I knew going in that this could happen. But when it actually does happen, it still sucks.

I still love the car. But part of me is already looking forward to my next car, which will definitely be electric and will definitely not be a Tesla.
Interesting observation! I was wondering why V11 bothered me not only did n technical level - you are correct. I bought into the idea of OTA updates with the tacit expectation that those will always be beneficial for me (good marketing, right?). Having experienced the other side of the coin, I would say that it is very intrusive. If they limit themselves to big fixes and minor changes I would have probably not felt that way.
I would not go all the way and say that I would not have bought the car if I knew that I have to turn on the HVAC to activate the seat heater but such design decision would have definitely given me a pause.
 
Interesting observation! I was wondering why V11 bothered me not only did n technical level - you are correct. I bought into the idea of OTA updates with the tacit expectation that those will always be beneficial for me (good marketing, right?). Having experienced the other side of the coin, I would say that it is very intrusive. If they limit themselves to big fixes and minor changes I would have probably not felt that way.
I would not go all the way and say that I would not have bought the car if I knew that I have to turn on the HVAC to activate the seat heater but such design decision would have definitely given me a pause.
It doesn't turn on the full HVAC system...just the ventilation...as you have mentioned before. If it bothers you that much just set fan to 1 and you would never even know it was on. I find it amusing you would consider not buying the car because of this miniscule thing. Each to their own but at least having the fan on can't be classed as unsafe! LOL
 
It doesn't turn on the full HVAC system...just the ventilation...as you have mentioned before. If it bothers you that much just set it to 1 and you would never even know it was on. Why does this non event cause you such anguish?
Because it is stupid design decision, in principle (as I mentioned above). What is the benefit of activating a system that I do not need in order to gain access to the system I need?!

(BTW, sometimes I turn the HVAC off when the AC is working. Turning the seat warmers _will_ activate the compressor then)

It reminds me of a classmate’s dad who had a Yugo. Every time he closed the driver door the window fell down. He had to pull it back up every time.
 
What is the cost of it activating? Nothing.
I can tell you that the cost is:
- development resources that could have been allocated to fix real issues
- learning how to deal with the new interface
- unintuitive design
- prolonged lack of attention to the road
- more wear on the fan and compressor motors

But you will likely ignore those objective points with some highly subjective arguments like “it does not bother _me_”. So, just downvote the post and move on.
 
I can tell you that the cost is:
- development resources that could have been allocated to fix real issues
- learning how to deal with the new interface
- unintuitive design
- prolonged lack of attention to the road
- more wear on the fan and compressor motors

But you will likely ignore those objective points with some highly subjective arguments like “it does not bother _me_”. So, just downvote the post and move on.
-Dev resources put to v11 is worthwhile as it is a better interface and will get even better I have no doubt
-Learning how to deal with new interfaces is worth it because, well, see previous
-In your opinion it is unintuitive but you hate it, so its expected you think this. I love it and think it is a major step up from v10
-prolonged lack of attention to the road is in your head. v11 is actually safer than looking at the bottom of the screen to find buttons. Now they are in the middle of the screen and much easier to hit than before. If you have difficulty hitting the buttons, then try swiping up, putting your 4 fingers on the top of the screen and using your thumb to hit the buttons...it is SO easy and you take your eyes of the road for no more time than v10.
-wear on the fan and compressor motors...relax they can handle the use! Do you put plastic film over your car seats too?

Your points are not all objective but they are, in my opinion, all inane. To say something new requires learning is to state the obvious. To say the UI is unintuitive is subjective, to say the new UI means less attention to the road is also subjective opinion because for me it means more time looking at the road. No more staring at the bottom of the screen with your peripheral vision now locked inside the car and less safe. Also, what are you saving the fan and compressors for? The next owner? They are meant to be used.
 
Finally, I had a chance to listen to the 2021Q4 earnings call. If you haven’t yet - you should. It is an eye opener.
It is clear that, while the management is focused on EV cars, he is totally focused on AI (the remark about labor and capital was especially weird/interesting in a startup kind of way). In a way, he sees the car as an AI platform, not an EV. It is very subtle but it looks like they let him play in the AI field while they run the business. He is certainly involved but more from intellectual point of view.
There were some posts here to that effect and after listening to the call everything about the issues we have seems clear - they are super focused on scaling and AI. Making the cars better from a traditional point of view (quality, luxury, driver comfort, etc.) is not important for them.
Still processing the call but V11 is absolutely part of the vision; it will not get “fixed” as some of us expect. I would not be surprised if it becomes even harder to use from driver’s perspective.
I feel the same way about the call as you. I was eagerly anticipating getting home from work and listening to the call that day, mostly due to the vague statement Elon made awhile back about talk concerning their product roadmap. It was super disappointing, and very odd. I get the impression of a company and CEO losing touch with reality.

I agree, it's all about autonomy. But who can honestly say they believe their car is worth 5 times as much because it is a potential robotaxi? He said the financial implications are "nutty good". Yeah, something is nutty alright.
 
You guys just need to stop responding to TT and/or put him on ignore. He's never going to stop this insane argument that everything is peachy-keen with V11. Everytime you post something, he's going to come back with his usual textual diarrhea to refute it. I learned in the 8th grade that if you just ignore the bullies, they'll leave you alone. At this point it's a religious issue, and you're never going to change someone's mind about religion and if you don't belong to his religion, everything you believe is wrong and we know how intolerant religions are of others' beliefs.
 
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I joined TMC specifically to see if owners have had Tesla roll back the "update," but I haven't seen that yet. I emailed my service center, but have not heard back.

The KC service center replied to me yesterday. He said "Apologies on the delay! Due to the uniqueness of the request, I had to run it by a few of our service advisors / service techs to see if this was a possibility. Unfortunately, they confirmed it is not an option to move from V11 to V10."

Uniqueness? There's no possible way that I'm the first one to have ever ask to reflash the OS.

His reply makes me think I was asking to just strip out the awful V11 UI. I would gladly go back to whatever stable build was in operation before the holiday update. I would gladly give up the blind spot cameras (it's laggy and in the wrong spot anyways), and the remote sentry view (my kids thought it was funny the car told them to look both ways before crossing, but it's really a toybox-like feature for me).

I know it's possible to reflash an Android's OS at home; surely the Tesla community has an equivalent operation.

-The-honeymoon-with-my-SR+-is-over,
Travis
 
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