Expensing EV mileage UK

[spooksman]

Yep. That's exactly our policy. They will only pay the HMRC rates for diesel, petrol and electric. Up to us to choose a vehicle from the list that fits the needed mpg etc. Although they are still only paying 5p rate for electric, but that's a different argument

Your starter for 10...

Advisory fuel rates

Find out about advisory fuel rates for company car users, when you can use them, and how they're calculated.

www.gov.uk

 

[TimboUK]

Your starter for 10...
View attachment 902891

Advisory fuel rates

Find out about advisory fuel rates for company car users, when you can use them, and how they're calculated.

www.gov.uk

Yep, currently trying to get HR to sort it. Done over 3500 business miles since the theoretical change. Although officially a company can pay the previous rate for up to a month.

 

[Jason71]

Yep, currently trying to get HR to sort it. Done over 3500 business miles since the theoretical change. Although officially a company can pay the previous rate for up to a month.

I assume most of those were home charging on a reduced rate of say 10p per kwh? in which case its actually costing you 3-4p most of the time....

 

[yessuz]

Well for private car users, it's above the AMAP rates of 45/25p that are taxable, but the general principle that your company can pay you anything is correct.

Yeah.. that's why my company recently increased payments for private EVs from measly 15p to whopping 18p.. at least they do not deduct if I do more than 10k miles... Whi I kind of do

 

[TimboUK]

I assume most of those were home charging on a reduced rate of say 10p per kwh? in which case its actually costing you 3-4p most of the time....

Nope. I fixed mine two years ago and am paying 18p/kWh. In a couple of months that'll be the standard rate of 33p I think. Working away all week and only being at home on a weekend it's not worth me switching to a cheaper overnight rate

 

[TimboUK]

I assume most of those were home charging on a reduced rate of say 10p per kwh? in which case its actually costing you 3-4p most of the time....

On the back of that I start a week fully charged, then it's superchargers for me, or even worse the Instavolt at 75p/kWh. Normally do 400-500 miles in a week. Reckon whilst the company are paying me 5p/mile I'm susidising about £160 a month

 

[NewbieT]

Me to employer:
If you use the AFR it costs me more to fill up than I can claim. Why would I do that?
It disincentivises me to leave the house to see clients. That or I’ll sit at a cheaper 7kW charger on company time to charge the car. Neither behaviour is desirable.

Employer to me: just claim 45p.

Appreciate it won’t be that easy for everyone.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Me to employer:
If you use the AFR it costs me more to fill up than I can claim. Why would I do that?
It disincentivises me to leave the house to see clients. That or I’ll sit at a cheaper 7kW charger on company time to charge the car. Neither behaviour is desirable.

Employer to me: just claim 45p.

Appreciate it won’t be that easy for everyone.

Do you have a company or salary sacrifice car?

If so, the tax man won’t be happy.

If not, you’ve always been able to at least claim 45p in tax allowance (appreciating that’s less in cash terms)

maybe it’s just me, but personally I don’t have a vast amount of sympathy for anyone that didn’t look beyond the really low BIK and tax relief on the monthly payments but didn’t look at the implications on fuel costs. I also appreciate some may not have been advised well or circumstances have changed, so some may be unfortunate. Governments can’t do right at times. In the US, they extended the tax rebates to include the MY again to incentivise buyers, so Tesla put the prices up to effectively take much of the benefit for themselves. People and companies exploit tax breaks but moan on every downside. It’s no consolation but my first Tesla in 2015 was a company car and the approved rate was ZERO. I didn’t get a penny towards electricity costs for my business miles. I went into the deal with my eyes open, albeit it was somewhat mitigated by free supercharging, not that they were as many back then and I charged at home a lot.

 

[Jason71]

Do you have a company or salary sacrifice car?

If so, the tax man won’t be happy.

If not, you’ve always been able to at least claim 45p in tax allowance (appreciating that’s less in cash terms)

maybe it’s just me, but personally I don’t have a vast amount of sympathy for anyone that didn’t look beyond the really low BIK and tax relief on the monthly payments but didn’t look at the implications on fuel costs. I also appreciate some may not have been advised well or circumstances have changed, so some may be unfortunate. Governments can’t do right at times. In the US, they extended the tax rebates to include the MY again to incentivise buyers, so Tesla put the prices up to effectively take much of the benefit for themselves. People and companies exploit tax breaks but moan on every downside. It’s no consolation but my first Tesla in 2015 was a company car and the approved rate was ZERO. I didn’t get a penny towards electricity costs for my business miles. I went into the deal with my eyes open, albeit it was somewhat mitigated by free supercharging, not that they were as many back then and I charged at home a lot.

Just cos you are saving on BiK does not mean you should have to pay your emploers fuel costs. The BiK reduction was supposed to be to promote EV adoption not to allow employers to leach off their employees.

 

[Jason71]

The current system is never going to work well for EVs. If all my driving is in range of home and i am on IO then i am paying 3.3p per mile an 8p is great. If i am using public charging all the time its between 10p-23p per mile and i am getting hosed.

If you can do most charging at home or at work but have to pay for the odd supercharger then you are probably ok on average and can live with it but for those without home charging.....

 

[spooksman]

Me to employer:
If you use the AFR it costs me more to fill up than I can claim. Why would I do that?
It disincentivises me to leave the house to see clients. That or I’ll sit at a cheaper 7kW charger on company time to charge the car. Neither behaviour is desirable.

Employer to me: just claim 45p.

Appreciate it won’t be that easy for everyone.

So if it's a company car, you're either paying tax on the extra 37p or the company are happy to misrepresent your car as a private vehicle to HMRC...

 

[NewbieT]

Company car or salary sacrifice wasn’t an option so sympathy doesn’t come into it. Car allowance with private/personal car.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Just cos you are saving on BiK does not mean you should have to pay your emploers fuel costs

I don't hear anyone offering to give excess back when it is/was in employees favour.

But I do agree with you, and I doubt employer wants employee to be out of pocket. A fixed rate (for Petrol) was very convenient for employer and the price of petrol was reasonably consistent. Of course for Leccy home-stuff is comparatively cheap and road-trip-stuff comparatively expensive. And some people will have no home charging at all ...

Far more admin for company to have to do "receipts" for individual purchases than a fixed rate (cost of admin would likely be out of all proportion to the cost of the fuel itself ...) so no easy route to solving it. Some sort of Fuel Card would help - but that would require that all chargers were part of a common solution, and they all individually think that having a monopoly and "me-only" APPs / Cards / RFIDs makes sense ... idiots!

Early adopter / change management for companies, sadly.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Just cos you are saving on BiK does not mean you should have to pay your emploers fuel costs. The BiK reduction was supposed to be to promote EV adoption not to allow employers to leach off their employees.

My point is the rules were clear when people signed up, if you don’t like them, don’t sign up for them.

I think a, say, £400 a month saving through low BIK etc should more than compensate for maybe £40 shortfall in electricity. Look at it in the round and not on every line item.

As a back story, I had an employee a few years ago who moaned the then 16p a mile petrol rate didn’t cover the costs of his v8 petrol powered car that did 20mpg. I don’t see it much differently.

 

[yessuz]

My point is the rules were clear when people signed up, if you don’t like them, don’t sign up for them.

I think a, say, £400 a month saving through low BIK etc should more than compensate for maybe £40 shortfall in electricity. Look at it in the round and not on every line item.

As a back story, I had an employee a few years ago who moaned the then 16p a mile petrol rate didn’t cover the costs of his v8 petrol powered car that did 20mpg. I don’t see it much differently.

Well no.

For example my employer pays 25p per mile on personal petrol/diesel car Business mileage but only 18 p per mile for EV

 

[WannabeOwner]

my employer pays 25p per mile on personal petrol/diesel car Business mileage but only 18 p per mile for EV

Which is fine if average cost for an average petrol/diesel car is 25p a mile and for an average EV is 18p a mile

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Well no.

For example my employer pays 25p per mile on personal petrol/diesel car Business mileage but only 18 p per mile for EV

Did you not know when you got your EV what the rules were or did they change under you? I said from the start that I recognised that for some the rules changed underneath them and left them in a bad position, my lack of sympathy is for those that could easily have found out the rules, maybe even knew them, and then complain when they are what they are.

We may have to agree to disagree, not much point falling out ovrer it amongst ouselves as none of us are in a position to change the rules.

 

[btc1k]

Well no.

For example my employer pays 25p per mile on personal petrol/diesel car Business mileage but only 18 p per mile for EV

Right, and a personal car, used for business, you can reclaim the difference via tax relief to 45p/mile.

 

[yessuz]

Right, and a personal car, used for business, you can reclaim the difference via tax relief to 45p/mile.

I know. And petrol owners can reclaim as well.

What you get, if you are in 40% tax, on ICE you claim 40% tax relief on 20 p which is 12p per mile on top of 25p you got paid, so 37p in total per mile.

For EVs you claim 40% on the 27p, which is 16p. So 16 +18 = 34

Still ICE gets it better... And company claim all the BS about reducing Carbon footprint and so on...

 

[yessuz]

Did you not know when you got your EV what the rules were or did they change under you? I said from the start that I recognised that for some the rules changed underneath them and left them in a bad position, my lack of sympathy is for those that could easily have found out the rules, maybe even knew them, and then complain when they are what they are.

We may have to agree to disagree, not much point falling out ovrer it amongst ouselves as none of us are in a position to change the rules.

When I bought it was 45p. Everyone was claiming 45 irrespective of fuel in their private cars.

Then 3 months later HR realized that there was active policy with different rates, namely 15p for EVs and 20p for ICE and they enforced it again. Policy was active but no one cared and not much of enforcement... So they started to enforce it.

Then a massive backlash was coming from sales community so HR has reviewed it to the 18/25 from 2023...

EV drivers still shafted