External indicator light whena vehichle is self driving. Which color?

[ALSETJC]

I really believe we need an exterior light indicating that a vehicle is in self driving operation. I think its very important for others to be aware due to mixed driving situations. I also think it will cause less road rage knowing the person that is taking that turn slowly is really the computer. Can it be a purple light?

Does anyone else think this is a very important item that should be addressed as soon as possible?

 

[K2500Z71]

I would tend to disagree. Would only add unnecessary cost and complexity to the cars with little benefit. We’re all supposed to be driving defensively meaning we anticipate the actions of other vehicles (self driving or otherwise) and pedestrians around us to avoid accidents.

 

[MP3Mike]

Just slap a "student driver" bumper sticker on the car.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

Can it play snake jazz too?

 

[outdoors]

Toshiba lighting is working on a signature autonomy light that does that. Not sure if they are trying to create a standard or follow one. Idea it would let people/cars know what the car is doing. I could see some look at a car and see no one driving yet it is moving and they are perplexed.

Sorry forgot the color. It was turquoise.

 

[animorph]

I have thought a light would be a good idea. An FSD car is likely to drive differently than a human and it would be good to have that warning. Might need different colors for each driving system.

 

[drtimhill]

I really believe we need an exterior light indicating that a vehicle is in self driving operation. I think its very important for others to be aware due to mixed driving situations. I also think it will cause less road rage knowing the person that is taking that turn slowly is really the computer. Can it be a purple light?

Does anyone else think this is a very important item that should be addressed as soon as possible?

I think you would just invite people to do stupid things .. brake test it, teenagers jump in front of it to test braking etc. Never underestimate the stupidity of some people.

Also, what are other drivers supposed to do .. stay clear of the car? That would mess up the ability of the car to learn to handle driving properly anyway. Personally, it would be more sensible to mark cars driven by people with bad driving records (not saying this is practical or sensible, but it makes more sense than singling out an FSD car).

 

[mikes_fsd]

I think you would just invite people to do stupid things .. brake test it, teenagers jump in front of it to test braking etc. Never underestimate the stupidity of some people.

Yup, this right here.
It's like having a "Kick me" sign on your back, except you are the one who put it there to begin with. Asking for the stupid to come out!

 

[JulienW]

Related, I have predicted before that once we have a significant percentage of self driving cars drivers will learn that they can become aggressive. Drivers will probably start cutting in, cutting off, passing close, swerving at and many other things since they know the car will default to safety and won't "road rage" back.

So putting an "idiot" light on the car is a lot like putting a "kick me" sign on your back.


EDIT: Damm, sorry mspisars. Didn't meant to plagiarize. I just didn't read your entire comment before posting.

 

[guitarman]

You should not advertise that the car is on FSD. This will change the behaviour of other cars as well as invite others to do very stupid things to test it. It seems like the reason to advertise it is to *warn* others -- but it isn't inherently more dangerous (when operated as instructed and intended) than many other drivers on the road -- yet we don't require normal drivers to advertise how bad they are. For example -- teenage drivers -- who in my opinion clearly drive like FSD beta -- or worse!

It reminds me also of the past when they used to advertise any rental car as such. The agencies thought it was a great idea until it essentially put a target on the cars and their drivers as tourists or business people with stuff that can be stolen, etc. They soon removed any sign it was a rental.

 

[outdoors]

From what I am reading in some of the below the communication just needs to adapt between pedestrians and cars, and between cars. Doesn't seem like an adopted standard yet from SAE. I am sure they are looking way down the road. The discussions are being had. I get some see the kick me sign, but hey I think that is assuming the car won't be able to function well. To me its just communicating so I don't have to while I read something. Also letting others know I am recording every single thing around me all the time.

Automated Driving System (ADS) Marker Lamp (J3134 Ground Vehicle Standard) - SAE Mobilus
https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2018/wp29gre/GRE-79-35e.PDF
Column: Automotive lighting and self-driving vehicle safety
https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/extcoo...Update-on-Global-Ground-Vehicle-Standards.pdf (pg 15 lighting task force lol)

 

[drtimhill]

Way back in the 19th century people were so scared of the new "Automated Carriages" (i.e. cars) that (in the UK) a law was passed requiring that someone walked in front of the "car" at all times with a red warning light (really!).

Sounds like we haven't really come very far. The SAE marker lamp proposal appears to have no justification that I can see. What purpose does it serve? It assumes that the cars are in some way more dangerous .. and yet it is the SAE who are also proposing standards that more or less block self-driving cars until they are shown to be SAFER than human drivers.

Suggestion: When self-driving cars are shown to be safer, all human-driven cars should be equipped with a lamp saying "danger:human driver".

 

[Daniel in SD]

SAE who are also proposing standards that more or less block self-driving cars until they are shown to be SAFER than human drivers.

Do you have a reference for this? I haven't seen it.
Also, I've never seen anyone argue that we should deploy self-driving cars that decrease road safety. I guess the obvious argument is that the economic benefit would outweigh the cost in lives and injuries.