Revisiting the Indicator light needed for Autonomous driving! We need an external light!

[ALSETJC]

I posted this a long while back and was ridiculed, but I'm going to double down on this.

With all the phantom breaking and bad autopilot decisions I still think it is imperative to have a light indicating the driver is not controlling the vehicle. Yes, Yes I understand that autonomous driving should not require it but my argument is that it's the interaction with other people that make it must. We do many physical gestures to indicate right of way and other communicative actions. The other drivers need to know this is not possible. We have so few cars with this technology, other drivers need to know that this car might do some crazy things like phantom breaking, going into a curb lane, hesitate etc. Every time I use it I'm like damn I can't be seen driving like this, and there's no way to communicate to people that it is not me driving. I then proceed to turn it off.

When we finally get to a point where the majority is autonomous or we can go a year without intervention then we can remove the light. Until then, pedestrians, other drivers and anyone in general should know when the driver is not controlling the vehicle. It should be considered a safety measure.

I've had my say again, does anyone else agree?

 

[jjrandorin]

When we finally get to a point where the majority is autonomous or we can go a year without intervention then we can remove the light.

You mean "When we get to the point where the majority is autonomous we can ADD the light, right (since we dont have autonomous vehicles right now, there should be no such thing as "the driver is not controlling the vehicle").

 

[ALSETJC]

You mean "When we get to the point where the majority is autonomous we can ADD the light, right (since we dont have autonomous vehicles right now, there should be no such thing as "the driver is not controlling the vehicle").

Level 4 and above need the light on. Why would we add a light when all vehicles are autonomous, it would be useless. The point of the light is to communicate that the car is currently making the decisions not the person in the seat.

 

[jjrandorin]

Level 4 and above need the light on. Why would we add a light when all vehicles are autonomous, it would be useless. The point of the light is to communicate that the car is currently making the decisions not the person in the seat.

You just rebutted your own argument. There is no "car is making the decisions not the person in the seat" yet, and we are not anywhere near close to that, so there is no light needed for "human not in control of car".

If you want to argue this is needed once cars actually reach that point, sure have that discussion. Until we are, Humans are controlling the car, and liable for controlling the car, thus, no need for any sort of indicator to the contrary.

 

[ALSETJC]

Yes, I understand we are ultimately in control. It's about communication, and that is what this accomplishes. This is why brake lights, reverse and signals were invented. We also need to communicate when we have it engaged or not because at that specific moment we are not in control of the cars decisions. The car who almost caused an accident by braking on the highway won't cause the other drivers to curse you while gesturing to them it wasn't me! lol.

 

[Watts_Up]

>> We need an external light !

This remind me when drivers were putting an AAA sticker on their car bumper.

So what wass the point of doing it?

A joke was that other drivers will know that AAA will paid for their car's damages.
So drivers who needed a new fender always tried to have a collision with such AAA covered car!!!

I imagine that cars using a flashing light alerting for an Autonomous Driving car, will receive a lot of digs !!! LoL.

 

[ALSETJC]

>> We need an external light !

This remind me when drivers were putting an AAA sticker on their car bumper.

So what wass the point of doing it?

A joke was that other drivers will know that AAA will paid for their car's damages.
So drivers who needed a new fender always tried to have a collision with such AAA covered car!!!

I imagine that cars using a flashing light alerting for an Autonomous Driving car, will receive a lot of digs !!! LoL.

I don't think we need a light for that , I'm already taking the abuse for the cars decisions. The sticker is not the same obviously.

 

[KArnold]

Maybe a "student driver" bumper sticker would work as well? Or I think some have made "autonomous vehicle" bumper stickers?

I like the idea if some chose to go that way but doubt I'd want to use it, at least as a government mandated control.

 

[Supcom]

I posted this a long while back and was ridiculed, but I'm going to double down on this.

With all the phantom breaking and bad autopilot decisions I still think it is imperative to have a light indicating the driver is not controlling the vehicle. Yes, Yes I understand that autonomous driving should not require it but my argument is that it's the interaction with other people that make it must. We do many physical gestures to indicate right of way and other communicative actions. The other drivers need to know this is not possible. We have so few cars with this technology, other drivers need to know that this car might do some crazy things like phantom breaking, going into a curb lane, hesitate etc. Every time I use it I'm like damn I can't be seen driving like this, and there's no way to communicate to people that it is not me driving. I then proceed to turn it off.

When we finally get to a point where the majority is autonomous or we can go a year without intervention then we can remove the light. Until then, pedestrians, other drivers and anyone in general should know when the driver is not controlling the vehicle. It should be considered a safety measure.

I've had my say again, does anyone else agree?

If you were ridiculed when you first proposed this, yet feel motivated to try again, the original response was insufficient.

 

[father_of_6]

this car might do some crazy things like phantom breaking, going into a curb lane, hesitate etc. Every time I use it I'm like damn I can't be seen driving like this

I think the point others are trying to make is that you are allowing the car to do these things and are totally liable. Perhaps you just shouldn't use it.

Other drivers on the road did not sign up to be beta testers and didn't agree to the danger you put them in when your vehicle is doing these things. Warning them of this danger with an additional signal on the vehicle doesn't alleviate them from being in danger. Perhaps you should only use FSD on a closed course.

 

[ALSETJC]

I think the point others are trying to make is that you are allowing the car to do these things and are totally liable. Perhaps you just shouldn't use it.

Other drivers on the road did not sign up to be beta testers and didn't agree to the danger you put them in when your vehicle is doing these things. Warning them of this danger with an additional signal on the vehicle doesn't alleviate them from being in danger. Perhaps you should only use FSD on a closed course.

I'm not saying you are transferring liability, I am also not saying it's more dangerous. I don't think I'm getting the point across. When it is activated you are NOT in control. Yes you can intervene but you are not making the decisions. Other drivers and pedestrians should know this as they will need to interact with the car differently or make sure you disengage FSD before they are comfortable walking in front of your car. It is courtesy and as the technology is not close to perfect, we should probably have an indicator when it is engaged. If you think FSD should be on a closed course because obviously I'm fully aware when using it, then it should be removed from all cars. I don't think that's the solution.

 

[ALSETJC]

If you were ridiculed when you first proposed this, yet feel motivated to try again, the original response was insufficient.

That's not helpful.

 

[ALSETJC]

Maybe a "student driver" bumper sticker would work as well? Or I think some have made "autonomous vehicle" bumper stickers?

I like the idea if some chose to go that way but doubt I'd want to use it, at least as a government mandated control.

Again you guys are missing the point. Read the entire response please. You can't rip a bumper sticker off when not in use. This is entirely different.

 

[JB47394]

Level 4 and above need the light on.

Any autonomy system that can steer the car should have some indication of that fact. This is the same as having a "Student Driver" bumper sticker on a car - it lets other drivers know that they should expect the unexpected, and to use a little extra caution around that car.

The indicator is most important for flawed autonomy systems. Once those systems are up to Level 4 and 5 there's really not much point in telling other drivers anything because there's nothing to be aware of; the car is going to drive perfectly well. At that point, we should start putting transponders on cars that don't have high levels of autonomy so that our autonomous cars can be forewarned about them.

 

[Supcom]

That's not helpful.

Neither was your original post.

OK, here's some help that you very badly need. We don't need to put a target on our cars to invite any idiot who want's to "test" the car's reaction to the threat of being cut off, side swiped, or even be part of an involuntary game of "chicken" on some rural highway. People are already starting to do things to disable Waymo's. Why do you want to scream, "Me next!"? Aren't there enough drunks out there looking for trouble without you guiding them? Are you dissatisfied with your Tesla and looking for someone to trash it for the insurance? Maybe you envy those AVs with all their wacky sensors and want to junk up your car too.

Conversely, we don't need other drivers to avoid our cars like they're full of Ebola victims. The cars need to be able to coexist with normal traffic, good and bad. You appear to want the car to get special consideration so that you have a nicer drive. I want my car to deal with it. If it can't, I disengage so that Tesla can make it better.

If you are embarrassed that your car cannot react to other drivers' hand signals, then just tap the accelerator, brake, or whatever needs done. Your car has failed again. Get over it and move on. So, you don't get to claim a zero intervention drive. It's not the end of the world. No points will be deducted from your score. You don't need to sit there until other drivers get mad. If it bothers you, take charge.

Putting a flashing purple light, pizza delivery sign, or whatever, on your vehicle isn't going to make other drivers any more tolerant of the fact that your car sits at stop signs too long or slows down unexpectedly. The very few who even know what the sign means will expect your car to screw up and will give you ZERO consideration and less patience because you are one of "those" idiots with an idiot car. Some of them may pull up next to you to offer advice on where you should set the nav destination or how to conduct your sex life. If that's what you want, then go for it. Thank you very much for your kind suggestion but I'll pass. As a cyclist, I have received more than my share of helpful life improvement suggestions from the motoring public. I don't need more.

Finally, if Tesla wanted FSDb cars to scream out to the world to LOOK OUT!, they would have programmed the many lights around the vehicle to dazzle the public with a full time light show. They didn't.

 

[Supcom]

Again you guys are missing the point. Read the entire response please. You can't rip a bumper sticker off when not in use. This is entirely different.

You can buy a magnetic sign, if you wish to beg forgiveness. Plenty of these are available. Comes right off. Leaves no residue.

 

[Supcom]

Every time I use it I'm like damn I can't be seen driving like this, and there's no way to communicate to people that it is not me driving.

"Don't think badly of that poor man behind the wheel, Martha. Blame Elon Musk for that car's bad driving. He's the real idiot."

Yeah, sure. They'll be much more considerate of what your going through.

 

[Supcom]

I am also not saying it's more dangerous.

I agree that it's not. But, your proposal screams otherwise.

 

[Supcom]

Any autonomy system that can steer the car should have some indication of that fact. This is the same as having a "Student Driver" bumper sticker on a car - it lets other drivers know that they should expect the unexpected, and to use a little extra caution around that car.

What indicator do you use when you turn on TACC? AP? NOA? Maybe you don't use any of these (flawed) autonomy systems. But, if you do, please let us know how you warn the unsuspecting public.

 

[Supcom]

Other drivers on the road did not sign up to be beta testers and didn't agree to the danger you put them in when your vehicle is doing these things.

The bloodbath that was so widely predicted when FSDb was expanded has yet to occur, despite 1 million miles being put on FSDb every 14 hours.