It's sort of an academic issue for the Roadster drivers since we won't be able to use Level III DC chargers, so I guess where they put the Blink chargers doesn't matter that much to me. But the decision to limit the Level II chargers to 30 amps does make a significant difference in terms of highway travel. If you don't like the 5 hours to charge at a 50 amp service at an RV park, and I don't particularly, then I know I'm going to hate even longer stays at the "new" Level II charge stations regardless if they're at a service station or a rest stop. I guess it's part of the game of accepting the "leading edge" hardware that something new will come along that makes you say, now why didn't I wait for that? I've used the Roadster as my only vehicle for a little over a year now and only had two occasions when I had to use a rental vehicle as a substitute. Once the highway charging system is up and running, I probably would want to swap the roadster for something that let's me better use the charging system that's available.
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It is worse than that in some cases. The Nissan Leaf for instance currently can only J1772 charge at 3.3kW (16A@208V) so you would need to stay at a public spot a long time to get a meaningful charge. They are offering some high speed DC, but the standard isn't fully ratified, they aren't even letting some people order that charge port, and some of the very few high speed charge stations are locked down for use only by fleet/test customers, not the general public. Given time, the standard might solidify and if they roll out enough of the high speed DC chargers (such as along highway 5 for instance) it could be an answer, but for the moment it isn't ready to go.
With my old Ford RangerEV, even 6.6kW charging makes road trips impossibly long. The Leaf could be twice as bad. For a Leaf customer trying to hop between J1772s you would need to bring a tent and a lot of good books along with you. Tesla Road trips with 70A are doable, but the 3.3kW or 6.6kW J1772 charging is more useful for "opportunistic top off" than for hopping between stations on a Road trip.
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I think the current generation of chargers are the Achilles heal of EV's. I do not believe that any mainstream car buyer is going to accept a limited network of "slow chargers" that require them to wait around for hours. I think we need access to 30A-50A everywhere and a serious effort to implement L3 charging at 'service stations'.
In the UK the conventional wisdom is that 13A@240V charge points are the sweet spot... I can only speculate who's specifying these chargers... not an EV driver I'm sure.
In the UK the conventional wisdom is that 13A@240V charge points are the sweet spot... I can only speculate who's specifying these chargers... not an EV driver I'm sure.
Reasons why some would prefer that "lowest common denominator" standard:
#1: Common household circuits generally available everywhere. (If you pull a load like a Welder, or electric Dryer you can find lots of wiring already available.)
#2: Common grade wiring, and no need for specialty electrician experience to install.
#3: Somewhat more safe in the case of a short or ground fault.
#4: It is the "sweet spot" in terms of battery longevity for routine charging of some battery chemistries.
But all of the above is somewhat irrelevant when you are in a hurry, stuck in some unpleasant place, just wanting enough juice to continue your journey.
The DC quick chargers show some of the downsides of going too far the other direction:
#1: Very expensive equipment.
#2: Limited locations where you can install them.
#3: Industrial wiring requiring specialized installation.
#4: Big heavy plugs that some frail people may find a bit unwieldy.
Again with the Leaf you can get two options - the slow little plugs, or the quick big plug. No choice in the middle.
But maybe the 70A@240V middle range is not really the answer either. Quicker than you need for overnight charging. Slower than you want for a long distance Road trip.
Maybe Nissan does have the right idea with the Leaf as long as they get enough quick DC chargers in strategic locations, and the J1772 is primary just used for overnight, or "parked at work" charging where the vehicle sits for at least 8 hours at a time.
The 32A+13A charge points that we are installing meet all of the above and are easily installed on the 100A single phase service that is prevalent in the UK. They are also extremely cheap to install which will allow us to install thousands.
Personally, I'm very happy to see a 32A socket when I stop at a restaurant, cinema, or stay overnight in a hotel. I appreciate this is not 'fast charge' but I really don't think the current 70A solutions will be deployed in large enough numbers to be useful when your away from the main highways.
People may be interested in this article on All Cars Electric: http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog...ing-points-why-you-should-ask-about-kilowatts
It deals with the rollout of underpowered charging infrastructure (13A 240V, 3.3kW) in the UK.
I have made some comments there, that I'll repeat here:
This article make a very important point. In practice the difference between 240V 13A (3.3kW), 30A (7kW) and 70A (17kW) when recharging on a long trip is huge. Adding 100 miles range drops from an unbearable 10 hours on a standard 13A socket, to a decent long lunch 2 hours on 70A. Equally important is the overnight charging case. For a real-world 200 mile car (today the Tesla Roadster, in a few years Nissan Leaf version 2) only 30A (7kW) and above restores the full 200 miles in an overnight 8 hour charge. 13A is too slow (needing over 20 hours).
3-phase 63A, at around 43kW (which we will see in the Renault Zoe) trumps the lot for AC charging (and equals the bottom end of DC fast charge for much lower infrastructure cost) giving the oppportunity to refill 100 miles in about 40 minutes - about the average visit time to a motorway service station once everyone has been to the toilet, bought a coffee, milled around and got back to the car. The Mennekes socket standard will support this (the car carries a Mennekes to Mennekes connector), while being cross compatible (by carrying a Mennekes to J1772 cable) with the 30/70/80A single phase model (supporting Nissan Leaf, Mitsubishi iMiev today and future models). Even 13A G-wiz vehicles can recharge from Mennekes with a suitable cable.
Infrastructure providers today seem stuck in a retro-looking model of 13A sockets only. They need to look forward and fit at least 70 or 80A J1772 or (better) 3-phase 63A Mennekes. If not their investments will be rapidly orphaned by advancing progress.
It deals with the rollout of underpowered charging infrastructure (13A 240V, 3.3kW) in the UK.
I have made some comments there, that I'll repeat here:
This article make a very important point. In practice the difference between 240V 13A (3.3kW), 30A (7kW) and 70A (17kW) when recharging on a long trip is huge. Adding 100 miles range drops from an unbearable 10 hours on a standard 13A socket, to a decent long lunch 2 hours on 70A. Equally important is the overnight charging case. For a real-world 200 mile car (today the Tesla Roadster, in a few years Nissan Leaf version 2) only 30A (7kW) and above restores the full 200 miles in an overnight 8 hour charge. 13A is too slow (needing over 20 hours).
3-phase 63A, at around 43kW (which we will see in the Renault Zoe) trumps the lot for AC charging (and equals the bottom end of DC fast charge for much lower infrastructure cost) giving the oppportunity to refill 100 miles in about 40 minutes - about the average visit time to a motorway service station once everyone has been to the toilet, bought a coffee, milled around and got back to the car. The Mennekes socket standard will support this (the car carries a Mennekes to Mennekes connector), while being cross compatible (by carrying a Mennekes to J1772 cable) with the 30/70/80A single phase model (supporting Nissan Leaf, Mitsubishi iMiev today and future models). Even 13A G-wiz vehicles can recharge from Mennekes with a suitable cable.
Infrastructure providers today seem stuck in a retro-looking model of 13A sockets only. They need to look forward and fit at least 70 or 80A J1772 or (better) 3-phase 63A Mennekes. If not their investments will be rapidly orphaned by advancing progress.
This is a story about a japanese patent that's been applied for; it's about the local storage I suspect and not about a real product; might be wrong but...
Japanese Developer's 5 Minute EV Recharging System Wins Patent | Integrity Exports
Japanese Developer's 5 Minute EV Recharging System Wins Patent | Integrity Exports
Norbert
TSLA will win
Wait a second.
When I put forward this idea here on this forum a few years ago, I was already told it's an old hat.
See also a similar concept (Aerovironment) of raising Level 1 up to Level 2, using a local energy storage:
http://evsolutions.avinc.com/uploads/products/1_AV_HCA_061010.pdf
Should I dig out my comment as proof of prior art?
Norbert
TSLA will win
Well, here it is anyway: (It's the Batteries, Stupid!)
dpeilow himself wrote this thoughtful response:
dpeilow himself wrote this thoughtful response:
Norbert
TSLA will win
Coincidence or not, an earlier message of mine (altogether second one on this forum) even includes a quote from an article mentioning "five minutes": (It's the Batteries, Stupid!)
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You've got to love patent offices, they'll have included some language to tie it to EVSEs & will now hold up the whole industry. Sorry, that's my glass-half-empty view.
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