That was the plan and once FSD Waymo is in service. So, it is insurable since there is "insurable interest" according to the basic insurance principal.
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Firmware 9 in August will start rolling out full self-driving features!!!
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Garlan Garner
Banned
Read my post right above yours.
These companies wouldn't be settling out of court if insurance was covering it.
History indicates the following.
"Every incident involving an autonomous vehicle in the U.S. to date—and there have been few—has been settled out of court."
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Ok! Google can self insured because it is ahead of it's time and probably economical decision as well. Nevertheless, FSD is insurable which is no different than a worker got hurt by an automated robot. We are in the world of transition to full automation in many fronts. The insurance companies will adapt to the new world.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I personally called 12 of the major insurance companies I could find trying to get coverage for my Tesla Model 3 asking if I can implement FSD level 5 and all of them said NO to FSD. I wanted to order FSD, however if I can't find insurance for it when I buy it....then I won't order it. That was my criteria for getting FSD or not at the time I placed the order....even if it might be insurable "later". I checked all buttons except for FSD.
They said that they have no coverage policies for a driverless car.
Garlan.....you didn't have to tell the insurance company you were buying a driverless car. Yes I did. If my FSD kills someone and my insurance company later says that I'm not covered....I'm going to jail. I have already been involved in life where my insurance didn't cover something that happened in an accident.....and by the Grace of God.....the injured person told the judge...."I'm tired of all of this....I just want to go home and forget all of this".
My insurance company said that if they wanted to press charges.....there would be nothing neither I nor they could do.
Can you please list an insurance company that will insure my FSD? I will go back and order FSD then.
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If you asked for driverless car insurance policy, I certainly can see your concern. But what about if you want Level 4 FSD policy? I would be interested what your thought are.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Well I'm not sure about Level 4. I don't believe level 4 is FSD because there is a responsible person in the car according to the definition of Level 4. Its stupid because Level 4 is not required to have steering or pedals. How is a person supposed to be liable for something they can't control?
Let me put it this way…..I will never drive a level 4 car. I AM NOT going to be sitting in a car with no steering wheel or pedals and no way to keep from hitting something or someone.
This is the definition of Level 4. Its just stupid.
Pay attention to the words " Privately Owned Level 4 car". That's HUGE. Level 4 makes sure that Car companies aren't liable. Therefore an individual has to insure that car with no pedals or steering wheels.
Level 4 _ High Automation
System capability: The car can operate without human input or oversight but only under select conditions defined by factors such as road type or geographic area. • Driver involvement: In a shared car restricted to a defined area, there may not be any. But in a privately owned Level 4 car, the driver might manage all driving duties on surface streets then become a passenger as the car enters a highway. • Example: Google’s now-defunct Firefly pod-car prototype, which had neither pedals nor a steering wheel and was restricted to a top speed of 25 mph.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Geico was the most honest insurance company I contacted about FSD.
They told me this: And I quote:
"You can buy whatever car you want. You don't have to tell us that you want to insure FSD. However if FSD causes damage or death....you WON"T be covered". "If you buy diamond studded rims that's fine with us, however if you are in an accident and didn't tell us about them and negotiate additional coverage...….you will be on your own for the replacement.".
What was really interesting was this statement:
"You can buy FSD and EAP and in the case where your car was legally totaled.....we will replace your software packages because they came with the car" In other words... they will replace the FSD software, however they don't have a policy covering the use of it.
L4 is defined as such steering wheel and brake paddle are required for human driver to "retake the control". L5 is optional. So long as you are driving a car with steering wheel and brake that would allow you, as a human driver, to take over the control. I don't see the problem of driving FSD. Again, if you are talking about a car without any sort of human control mechanisms, then, yes, I would not want to drive the car short of "TRUE" L5 car.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Geico won't even cover summons ( driverless ) if it goes malfunctions or goes berserk and kills a pet or something. I'm willing to trust summons ….I think.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I know what you are saying, however insurance companies have L4 listed as steering wheel and pedal optional.
Insurance companies and local and federal governments definitions hold the cards.
Call'em…..you'll see....I asked.
Ok! Two facts: Your car has steering wheel with L4 package and by using the L4 software, the insurance companies will argue somehow the steering wheel is not there therefore, you can not retake the control? Second, did the insurance companies provided you any document regarding your understanding from them?
I will call Geico tomorrow to learn more about this. If what you saying is written in Geico's insurance policy, it would potentially affect any kind of autopilot related accident not just FSD. That would be real stupid!
Here are some references:
Insurance companies are now offering discounts if you let your Tesla drive itself
Tesla's Autopilot Has Caused One Insurer To Slash Rates
Insurance company offers Tesla owners cheaper rates if they use Autopilot
Tesla is already showing how the insurance industry will be disrupted by self-driving cars
Need more?
eye.surgeon
Active Member
You seem a little confused about what auto insurance can and cannot do. It is not protection against criminal prosecution and has nothing to do with whether or not you "go to jail".
Garlan Garner
Banned
We aren't talking about EAP. We are talking about FSD.
The Driver is responsible in all forms of EAP. Not Tesla.....the Driver.
FSD has no driver.
Garlan Garner
Banned
If I can't pay for damages I cause in an accident. I been known as uninsured. I will go to jail. Period.
I've already been through that in court.
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eye.surgeon
Active Member
There's about 800,000 people a year who restructure their debts in court that would say otherwise.
What you are talking about is very temporary and the time will come sooner than you know it:
How will self-driving cars impact your car insurance?
Any auto insurance companies don't face the fact that FSD is coming will not be in business in next few years.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
If we accept as probable that we won't see L4 until after Tesla launches its own SoC/board presumably as part of the platform upon which such niftiness as L4 can exist, and if we accept that such a board is at least a year away, I wonder how much of the insurance discussion concerning FSD is even relevant. Neverminding that to some extent, 5G (ideally to then be supplanted by Starlink 10 years hence) would probably be needed to manage the additional data requirements...
As it stands today, only one company (VW Group - see Audi) has even L3 AP in a form that a customer will be able to actually buy and use.
Soooooo... considering that, along with any responsible person's caveat concerning Elon time and tweet parsing, does anyone credibly think that we'll see *any* FSD features this year? I don't doubt that we'll see the first EAP features (thereby elevating the E in EAP from its current decidedly silent status), but c'mon, folks. v9.0 on August 31st will beget v9.1 before the holidays, and then something interesting in late Jan/early Feb after it's been sanity-checked after the usual year-end madnezz.
In fairness, if you just read Elon's tweets for what he didn't type as much as for what he did, nowhere in said tweet did he suggest that all of FSD will be at hand this year or even next anyway - and that's an improvement in Elonspeak right there, or at least in our abilities to parse it.
Seems that the insurance industry has plenty of time to reconcile the benefits of driver assist versus the potential costs. Remember, these are the same scrimey bastahds ^H^H^H^H^H fine upstanding members of society that started charging more to insure SUVs because while safer for the occupants of said SUVs, they were causing too much damage to those vehicles impacted during collisions. Any way to make a buck, and that will not change anytime soon.
As it stands today, only one company (VW Group - see Audi) has even L3 AP in a form that a customer will be able to actually buy and use.
Soooooo... considering that, along with any responsible person's caveat concerning Elon time and tweet parsing, does anyone credibly think that we'll see *any* FSD features this year? I don't doubt that we'll see the first EAP features (thereby elevating the E in EAP from its current decidedly silent status), but c'mon, folks. v9.0 on August 31st will beget v9.1 before the holidays, and then something interesting in late Jan/early Feb after it's been sanity-checked after the usual year-end madnezz.
In fairness, if you just read Elon's tweets for what he didn't type as much as for what he did, nowhere in said tweet did he suggest that all of FSD will be at hand this year or even next anyway - and that's an improvement in Elonspeak right there, or at least in our abilities to parse it.
Seems that the insurance industry has plenty of time to reconcile the benefits of driver assist versus the potential costs. Remember, these are the same scrimey bastahds ^H^H^H^H^H fine upstanding members of society that started charging more to insure SUVs because while safer for the occupants of said SUVs, they were causing too much damage to those vehicles impacted during collisions. Any way to make a buck, and that will not change anytime soon.
Eh, the unlicensed uninsured dude who caused $47,000 worth of damage to my car didn’t go to jail. However, he was probably “judgement proof” meaning he had little to no assets to go after. Blood from a turnip and all.
The real question is would an umbrella policy cover you in the hypothetical FSD accident court situation.
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