the others Kiskers (with ICE engine):
http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/cars-you-didnt-know-about-the-fisker-tramonto-723035548
http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/cars-you-didnt-know-about-the-fisker-tramonto-723035548
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Fisker Karma
- Thread starter vfx
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- Electric Vehicles fail Fisker karma
How is my post fanboyism? Facts are facts. No bias here. The MSP will mop the floor with the Karma. There are tens of thousands of ICE cars that will mop the floor with the Model S. i never said the Model S is the quickest thing on wheels. There is no need to make stuff up.
Look, I get that you love the Karma(that's why you bought more than one), but there is no need to make stuff up to overcome the shortcomings. For a car that has an ICE(must be running to get any kind of performance out of it), the Karma performs pathetically. My thought is, if you are going to burn gas, why not get an ICE car that really performs?
What makes the MSP's performance amazing, is the fully electric capabilities that have never been achieved in a factory built electric vehicle. To me that has value. On the other hand, the Fiskers performance is silly for a machine using an ICE. The value of that is very little. That's one of the reasons why a lot of people stretch to get a MSP, but would at the same time laugh at the Karma.
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My comment was made entirely in the context of the discussion about the target of 15000 vehicles per year.
I feel that only having 4 seats and almost no trunk space in a car that large limits the potential market more than the performance aspects.
Nothing 'defensive' about it - have posted here to answer questions people might have about the Karma from someone who actually owns one (or in my case, two). If I were insecure about my purchase, wouldn't have purchased the second one about a month or two ago.
At any rate, I think some of the folks on here are more interested in either Fisker bashing or reassuring themselves of their MS/Roadster purchase and with such people, I'm only wasting my time responding. If anyone has any real questions or interest in my Fisker experience, feel free to PM me.
If someone buys a second Fisker I wouldn't immediately draw the conclusion that that person likes the car so much that he/she wants two. You can only drive one car at the same time. If someone buys a second Karma these days - and there have been a few, I've heard - the reason is usually either to have spare parts or to have at least one driving car when the other one breaks down for a long time (which is not uncommon lately).
On the speed issue: I drove a Karma for more than 15,000 miles and was not unhappy with the acceleration from standstill. But I wouldn't call it fast, especially not compared to a Model S (I had several test drives already and am waiting for delivery). In my Karma I once took off at a traffic light as fast as I could, beating an ICE, only to find out that I had a Chevy Volt on my tail! That says a lot.
I was driving in Stealth Mode. In Sport Mode the car is supposed to be somewhat faster (although I didn't really notice much difference). But turning on the ICE for a quick sprint is ridiculous. I didn't buy an electric car to have to turn on the ICE in order to take off faster, that's a 'gotspe'. And it's pretty silly to be turning the ICE on and off all the time. Not to mention the practical problems it caused: 1. The racket, which did not improve much despite two (!) new exhausts, and 2. the fact that the ICE wouldn't let itself be turned off. Due to exhaust regulations the ICE could only be turned off after it warmed up enough. Which was usually several minutes. So in order not to cause too much environmental problems it had to keep on running and cause environmental problems :-S
I loved the exterior design of my Karma (although it is so outspoken that by itself this limited the market of the car; not everyone wants to look like a millionaire, especially not when visiting customers). I also loved the interior design and materials, but the rest was too much of a compromise and badly executed as well.
On the speed issue: I drove a Karma for more than 15,000 miles and was not unhappy with the acceleration from standstill. But I wouldn't call it fast, especially not compared to a Model S (I had several test drives already and am waiting for delivery). In my Karma I once took off at a traffic light as fast as I could, beating an ICE, only to find out that I had a Chevy Volt on my tail! That says a lot.
I was driving in Stealth Mode. In Sport Mode the car is supposed to be somewhat faster (although I didn't really notice much difference). But turning on the ICE for a quick sprint is ridiculous. I didn't buy an electric car to have to turn on the ICE in order to take off faster, that's a 'gotspe'. And it's pretty silly to be turning the ICE on and off all the time. Not to mention the practical problems it caused: 1. The racket, which did not improve much despite two (!) new exhausts, and 2. the fact that the ICE wouldn't let itself be turned off. Due to exhaust regulations the ICE could only be turned off after it warmed up enough. Which was usually several minutes. So in order not to cause too much environmental problems it had to keep on running and cause environmental problems :-S
I loved the exterior design of my Karma (although it is so outspoken that by itself this limited the market of the car; not everyone wants to look like a millionaire, especially not when visiting customers). I also loved the interior design and materials, but the rest was too much of a compromise and badly executed as well.
According to this article, BAIC is considering buying Fisker to compete with Tesla with their Atlantic car.
http://insideevs.com/in-race-agains...ching-atlantic-to-compete-with-tesla-by-2015/
Given how many problems there were with the Karma I doubt it will be a serious competitor. The only thing Fisker has going for it is the look. Other than that I don't think it will be able to compete. Unlike Tesla, Fisker outsourced the motor technology and the battery technology. Unless there are some radical changes I don't think they can compete on batteries or motors. As it is, the Fisker Karma has had serious issues with both. My father's Karma had the rear drive motors replaced twice due to the metal shafts of the Chinese-made motors being too soft and we all know about the battery issues Fisker had, plus Fisker's batteries are much more expensive, bigger and heavier for the amount of power they hold.
Also, the design of the Atlantic still has the battery going down the center of the vehicle, resulting in a rather cramped interior. The Karma drive train is also significantly larger than Tesla's, requiring two synchronous motors, each of which is bigger than Tesla's single induction motor. I can barely fit in my father's Karma's front seat and the rear seat is out of the question.
http://insideevs.com/in-race-agains...ching-atlantic-to-compete-with-tesla-by-2015/
Given how many problems there were with the Karma I doubt it will be a serious competitor. The only thing Fisker has going for it is the look. Other than that I don't think it will be able to compete. Unlike Tesla, Fisker outsourced the motor technology and the battery technology. Unless there are some radical changes I don't think they can compete on batteries or motors. As it is, the Fisker Karma has had serious issues with both. My father's Karma had the rear drive motors replaced twice due to the metal shafts of the Chinese-made motors being too soft and we all know about the battery issues Fisker had, plus Fisker's batteries are much more expensive, bigger and heavier for the amount of power they hold.
Also, the design of the Atlantic still has the battery going down the center of the vehicle, resulting in a rather cramped interior. The Karma drive train is also significantly larger than Tesla's, requiring two synchronous motors, each of which is bigger than Tesla's single induction motor. I can barely fit in my father's Karma's front seat and the rear seat is out of the question.
This would be great news for Karma owners. They may even get warrantee coverage and part availability back to a normal level.
The looks of the car is stunning, even if I can't stand the cartoonish mustache front grill.
I just don't see the competition factor, I think they would be more complementary.
You just can't beat the package an EV brings with a car saddled with an ICE & electric motor.
The looks of the car is stunning, even if I can't stand the cartoonish mustache front grill.
I just don't see the competition factor, I think they would be more complementary.
You just can't beat the package an EV brings with a car saddled with an ICE & electric motor.
No guarantee, however if they want to leverage the brand name, I think they will need to support the current customers of the brand if they want people to buy the second.
However, they very well may just buy the design and ant engineering plans, scrap the name and wash their hands of the Karma badge.
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
The brand name is so tainted they'd be better off ditching it all together and calling it something else.
Is absolutely not going to happen (unfortunately). If any Fisker-drivers believe that a new owner will honor the 4 year guarantee period, they are fooling themselves. After driving between 1 and 1,5 years more and more cars are now developing serious problems, which are very costly to repair. A new owner would have to reserve at least $20,000 for every car. With over 2,000 cars that means $40 million in costs. No one will take that risk.
I was passed by a sparkly blue Fisker near San rafael on the way back north from Teslive. I saw it in my rear way back and thought it was a Tesla for a sec but the eyes were 'different'. I was smiling and looking over to wave at the woman driving or maybe give a thumbs up (since everyone gives them to me)....she ignored us completely. .. What a 'Too Short' explicative!
Something like that actually happened to me, but I was driving a Fisker! I was being overtaken by another one, but my thumbs up was completely ignored by the other driver
I'm convinced that would never happen between two Tesla-drivers. Actually, a year ago I was driving on the highway and in my rear view mirror I saw a Roadster zigzagging through traffic. Why? Just to reach me and give me a thumbs-up! Which ofcourse I returned. To me that said a lot about the Tesla-mentality.
It definitely is perceptible IF you are already used to the vehicle. It is not a dramatic difference.
The difference between an 85 and a P85 is much greater.
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