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Fisker Karma

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There are a bunch of owners paying for warranty repairs, hope he makes that right before pushing out the atlantic.
Regarding that - how can actually Fisker both not pay for warranty repairs, and not be bankrupt?

Wouldn't an owner that didn't get warranty work covered by Fisker have a claim against Fisker? Are the owners nice enough not to sue them out of existence, or what?
 
Looks like Pacific Century aka Richard Li & Henrik have won the FA DOE bidding and intend to follow through with the Atlantic.

Source? Been searching for news on this since yesterday, haven't found anything yet.

So I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but basically Henrik borrows a whole bunch of money from a whole bunch of people to launch his car company, voluntarily leaves this company when it's clear it's in a downward spiral, and has now bought it back for a fraction of its supposed value, free of most of its debt obligations. Is that pretty much it?

Frickin' brilliant!
 
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[FONT=&#23435]High standard loot Fisker: Richard like doing[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Zhou Kaiping[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  October 11, the U.S. Department of Energy held Fisker Automotive debt auctions, Chinese investors played a leading role, and finally Asia's richest man Li Ka-shing's son Richard Li won the subject.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  U.S. electric car company Fisker in its six-year period operating profit has never been a year ago, has been forced to stop its efforts to make a variety of financing this year, after May announced insolvent. Fisker to end for the internal management of the root cause of confusion, and even lead to differences in the management of one of the founders Henrik Fisker leave.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  But this did not stop the Chinese investor interest during the past year there have been five car companies in contact with out the price tag negotiate acquisitions. Wanxiang Group's VL Motor Company and Wang Xiaolin American GTA Motor Company reached the final, participated in the auction on October 11, but eventually lost to Richard's private investment company - Pacific Century Company.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Environmentally friendly cars GTA founder Wang Xiaolin team full of plans for the auction Fisker, auction fails night, Wang regret to say: "In Lee (Richard) is determined to win the bidding strategy, GTA and have decided to abandon the universal continue to follow up Congratulations Lee! Thank GTA and friends support! "[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Richard Li, the auction is the only "outsider", but its telecommunications industry background is also its biggest advantage, the future of automotive needs with intelligent integration of the telecommunications industry. Richard's business logic is set to auto and IT hardware and software, to create new business empire. He believes that IT has gone beyond the social networking and search engine category, "hardware and software trends in the IT industry in the future, especially mobile services, such as cloud computing."[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  As a new attempt by the car, the new energy automobile enterprises pay more attention to intelligent technology, the industry leader in electric vehicles within three years of Tesla plans to build a "autopilot car", Henrik Fisker Fisker in charge when I had to try and telecommunications companies to cooperate.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Fisker has become the meat and potatoes[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Fisker was established in 2007, because of its hybrid electric vehicles by the program's product positioning smash hit, its debt crisis last spring, before the advent of asset valuation as high as $ 2.2 billion.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  But its first product Karma plug-in hybrid sports car after the launch did not get recognized by the market, dragging down the Fisker's next plan. The price of up to $ 100,000 of the models, in 2011 more than a year after the listing sold only 2450. Fisker continued losses, the biggest debt is a sum from the U.S. Department of Energy's $ 168 million loans outstanding.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  In March this year, one of the founders Henrik Fisker Fisker forced to flee. Soon, Fisker announced that the U.S. Department of Energy's inability to repay loans, the government sent a team to take over Fisker company restructuring proposal.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  However, the Chinese auto companies but this house is full of interest moribund companies, there have been Geely Automobile [microblogging] , Dongfeng Group, Beijing Automotive Group, Wanxiang Group sent a team to the United States Fisker survey to bid evaluation.However, the first three in the process of contact has quit, Wanxiang Group's VL GTA Motor Company and American companies come to the end.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  October 11 auction will be held on the eve of the U.S. Department of Energy, Wanxiang Group, general manager of the United States is still quite confident Ni band, he said: "We have not changed stance on Fisker."[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  But Richard's idea of ​​adding changing the Ni-frequency trajectory. Back in May of this year, was forced to flee Henrik Fisker made contact with Richard, expressed the hope that the company's willingness to re-charge Fisker. Fisker deliberate move, Richard funded, but also for Fisker Automotive has long been concerned, already its investors and shareholders.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Richard took his private investment firm Pacific Century Investments Fisker Automotive team conducted a more detailed investigation itself has the advantage of fully overshadowed the other competitors. A learned Fisker state debt auction auto analyst, said: "Richard did not give other bidders the opportunity, offer high to other bidders can not accept."[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  October 14, the newspaper reporter called Richard Li Hong Kong company related departments, but did not get the purchase price and acquisition-related matters for information.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  The analysts believe that Richard has at least two advantages: First, in addition to repayment of debts on Fisker's bid much higher than other competitors. As previously quoted, the majority of bidders shouted down $ 20 million, the highest offer for the German investment company Fritz Nois AG out of $ 25 million, but Richard outset marked from 25 million to 30 million U.S. dollars; Second, Richard united founder Henrik Fisker Fisker auction.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  To the next big chess?[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Fisker in April 2011 launched the first product karma, in a pure electric drive driving under 80 km, then rely on hybrid can travel 403 kilometers, 100 kilometers acceleration time of 5.9 seconds and a top speed of 201 km / hours.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  However, the core technology is only that Fisker bodywork, chassis, hybrid control systems, control systems and other core technology from partner Quantum Technologies, Inc., Fisker is only right to use. It has also become a lot of negotiation were an important reason for the final exit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  However, capital operation known "Little Superman" Richard the business logic behind it there: Richard fought for many years in the communications industry, which can use their acquired IT, communications technology, and resources into the automotive electronics and intelligent, but also for IT industry to find a new way out.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  According to the relevant information display, Li's PCCW and HKT, mainly engaged in the provision of local, mobile and international telecommunications services, Internet access services, interactive multimedia and pay-TV services, the sale and rental of telecommunications equipment, as well as the provision of computer, engineering and other technical services, investment and development of systems integration, network engineering, and technology-related businesses.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  For the IT industry, Lee made a clear judgment, he believes that search engines and social networks are outdated, hardware and software is the future trend of the IT industry, especially mobile services, such as cloud computing. Not long ago its sponsorship of the "2013 Shanghai Hong Kong and Taiwan Youth IT Summer Camp", the Richard speech, said: "I want to remind you that search and social networking has used up, you need to look further."[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Richard on the mobile Internet have a keen sense of smell, met in April this year NetDragon CFO Wu Chak Man, you invested NetDragon's mobile application platform, "91 Wireless", four months after the benefit of more than four-fold. He also saw the car manufacturers and telecommunications combined with the new business opportunities, such as Continental AG has been with CISCO Cisco telecommunications equipment manufacturers reached an agreement to jointly develop automotive autopilot.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  The combination with Fisker is Richard explore future IT industry and car interconnected a try. Over the past 10 years, the Internet has changed the world, but not in the traditional industries create enough value. Car manufacturers are loaded for the mobile Internet and work product, but its lack of IT-style thinking, often for the purpose multi-car dealers, auto manufacturers stakeholder stay in their own; but thinking more open Internet, it may be to the terminal module to the customer a tool in the industry chain to improve efficiency, reduce costs, improve management and supply chain.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  In the new car seems networked thinking, automobile, including mobile Internet of Things, sensors, cloud computing, big data, you need the traditional automotive manufacturers and other technology owners for defragmentation. Car of the future will have to enter two phases: between car and vehicle autopilot "talk" data transmission.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Li Ka-shing invested Europe route[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Richard's private acquisitions in recent years, mainly in the mobile Internet and insurance business, the end of the acquisition of ING Group (ING) of the life insurance business in Hong Kong, Macao and Thailand, after the acquisition of Fisker, Richard Li Ka-shing to follow his father to enter the European route is gradually revealed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Li Ka-shing's family acquired under the auspices of the U.S. and Europe this year, accelerating investment, in which to complete the first half of 2013 to HK $ 24.9 billion acquisition of four in Europe, a move known as "Li Ka-shing Europe dips westward path."[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  In June this year, Li Ka-shing invested € 943 million (approximately HK $ 9.7 billion) acquisition of Holland's largest waste-to-energy company AVR-Afvalverwerking BV; 2011, the eldest son Victor Li Ka-shing to £ 2.4 billion acquisition of the UK's largest water supply and sewage treatment companies an N orthum brian waterworks; Youyi 645 million pounds last year, the acquisition of British Gas.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  However, Li Ka-shing's Hutchison Whampoa chief operating ports, real estate, retail, infrastructure, energy, and telecommunications-based industry, overseas acquisitions also telecommunications and energy as the primary goal, in 2012 to € 900 million and its $ 125 million acquisition of telecommunications company Orange, Austria and Israel operations; 2010, Li Ka-shing to $ 9.1 billion from the EDF Group acquired the UK's electricity network business ED F Energy grid assets; earlier time Victor completed British "rabbit" telecommunications company acquisitions.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Market promotion of electric vehicles is currently the biggest problem is the lack of charging piles and standards difficult to unify. According to the U.S. information consulting firm IHS forecast global electric vehicle fast charging stations for the 5900, up to 15,200 next year, up to 199,000 in 2020, but Japan, Europe and the United States is not the same as the national standard.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#23435]  Lee family in the telecommunications and electricity on the "West" for Richard "future car" to provide technical and infrastructure support. Although Fisker has convenient charging technology, the first product Kama advantage of just 110 volts, 220 volts or 240 volt outlet charging is completed, but there are grid tie remains its key market.[/FONT]

 
Source? Been searching for news on this since yesterday, haven't found anything yet.

So I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but basically Henrik borrows a whole bunch of money from a whole bunch of people to launch his car company, voluntarily leaves this company when it's clear it's in a downward spiral, and has now bought it back for a fraction of its supposed value, free of most of its debt obligations. Is that pretty much it?

Frickin' brilliant!

Li has not bought the company, he has won the bidding to buy the DOE loan at a discount. That makes him the largest secured creditor. Since there has been no bankruptcy, the equity holders, including Li, still "own" the company. Regardless of whether Li takes the company into bankruptcy or not, it will take $100's of millions to finish the design of the Atlantic and put it into production, so this is far from a free ride.
 
Source? Been searching for news on this since yesterday, haven't found anything yet.

Following is a well-written article about the Richard Li bid for Fisker Automotive:

Asian American: Richard Li Hopes to Become New-Age Car Tycoon with Fisker Buy Goldsea


The second son of Asia’s richest man hopes to create a new kind of car company by introducing sophisticated telecom technology to the US carmaker he is thought to have won by committing around $300 million to reviving it, according to Yahoo Finance and 21st Century Business

What is actually being purchased by Richard Li in a series of negotiations that began last Friday isn’t Fisker Automotive itself but a note evidencing Fisker’s $168-million debt to the US Energy Department. Anaheim-based Fisker, which hasn’t made a car in 15 months, also owes about $80 million to various suppliers. The DOE note is senior to other debt, giving its bearer a controlling interest in the company and the ability to shield it against being forced into bankruptcy by other creditors.

Li is the only non-car guy among the many bidders to the Energy Department note auction. Other bidders include co-founder and acclaimed car designer Henrik Fisker who had earlier allied with Li in an effort to regain control of the company he left last spring and Bob Lutz, GM’s former head of product development. Also bidding for the note were five Chinese car companies: Geely, Dongfeng Motor, BAIC Group, Wanxiang Group’s VL Auto and WM GrandTheft Automotive.

The minimum bid to participate in the auction had been set at $30 million. The DOE also required all bids to include a plan to promote manufacturing and engineering of green cars in the US. So in addition to the $30-million-plus for the note, Li is thought to have pledged a hefty infusion of capital, much of it from the assets of father Li Kashing who turned a small Hong Kong shipping firm into Asia’s biggest fortune.

The cost of reviving production of the $100,000 Fisker Karma plug-in hybrid is estimated at a minimum of $50 million while the cost of tooling up to begin production of the smaller $55,000 Atlantic sedan would likely top $500 million. Several hundred copies of the Karma had been produced and widely admired before Fisker hit a financial wall last May after having burnt through the $1.2-billion pumped in by investors and $168 million of the $529-million loan committed by DOE. Until its financial meltdown was precipitated by a series of unfortunate events, including a fire that destroyed over 100 cars, the firm had an implied valuation of $2.2 billion based on its final investment round.

Richard Li came into the bidding armed not only with his dad’s backing but also his own vision of a new kind of car company — one focused as much on providing cutting-edge software and computing capabilities as on styling and mechanics. Li knows something about computing technology, having built an internet and mobile telecom empire that has spread throughout Southeast Asia. He has also become a power in the insurance business, especially after buying out the ING Group’s Hong Kong, Macau and Thailand subsidiaries last year.

If Li does conclude a successful bid for control of Fisker, he may set himself on the road to becoming the second wealthiest man to control a car company in the US after Elon Musk whose Paypal, Tesla and SpaceX fortunes give him a net worth of about $4.3 billion. Li is currently estimated to be worth about $1.5 billion.
 
Regarding that - how can actually Fisker both not pay for warranty repairs, and not be bankrupt?

Wouldn't an owner that didn't get warranty work covered by Fisker have a claim against Fisker? Are the owners nice enough not to sue them out of existence, or what?

If they sue Fisker, what are they going to get? nothing basically. So must owners are affluent enough to afford to wait and see how this plays out, while paying for repairs in the meantime. There are some dealerships that are paying for the repairs themselves and waiting to bill Fisker as well. At some point the owners will get frustrated and will sue.

Fisker once righted should make good with the Karma owners before pushing out the atlantic. If they produce the Atlantic and the Karma owners are still paying for warranty that would be the point when lawsuits get going.
 
If they sue Fisker, what are they going to get? nothing basically. So must owners are affluent enough to afford to wait and see how this plays out, while paying for repairs in the meantime. There are some dealerships that are paying for the repairs themselves and waiting to bill Fisker as well. At some point the owners will get frustrated and will sue.

Fisker once righted should make good with the Karma owners before pushing out the atlantic. If they produce the Atlantic and the Karma owners are still paying for warranty that would be the point when lawsuits get going.
Well, if everyone sues, they won't get much, but if a single owner sues, there is too much money involved and that owner would get paid, I would think. Why don't some of the Karma owers try to to be that single Karma owner that gets paid?

(This is basically a "prisoner's dilemma". Only instead of having two "prisoners" you have around 1800 of them. All 1800 owners are nice enough not to sue, which I find incredible.)
 
Well, if everyone sues, they won't get much, but if a single owner sues, there is too much money involved and that owner would get paid, I would think. Why don't some of the Karma owers try to to be that single Karma owner that gets paid?

(This is basically a "prisoner's dilemma". Only instead of having two "prisoners" you have around 1800 of them. All 1800 owners are nice enough not to sue, which I find incredible.)

Well if someone sues for warranty repairs (remember that dealerships that are still doing warranty work some are absorbing the costs themselves, so they can sue as well), everyone is going to jump in on that or the judge will give it class action status ruining the single owners take. Also if anyone is getting any money out of Fisker it would be the DOE first (now that the loan debt was auctioned this may not be true), then whatever scraps are left would go to the other investors/creditors then what's left after that would go to the owners (which would be basically nothing) This is the reason why Investors have been giving Fisker barely enough money to operate, to keep it from folding, but not enough to make it an attractive target for lawsuits.

I will take your "prisoner's dilemma" analogy a step further. That most of the prisoners have more than enough money in their sock drawer to pay the guards to let them out. It's more like Stockholm syndrome :tongue:
 
Saw this about two months ago in the Chicago area (photo taken from the window of my Model S, and I think I heard my car laugh a little)...

Karma_small.jpg
 
On a slightly different note, I was talking with a friend about the BMW i8, and we decided that it is the logical Karma replacement: Looks the part, plug-in hybrid, small back seat, high price, etc. Looks like they kept the weight a lot lower, and BMW gives in to direct ICE power when you need it. I wonder if any Karma owners will switch?
 
On a slightly different note, I was talking with a friend about the BMW i8, and we decided that it is the logical Karma replacement: Looks the part, plug-in hybrid, small back seat, high price, etc. Looks like they kept the weight a lot lower, and BMW gives in to direct ICE power when you need it. I wonder if any Karma owners will switch?

I believe the design center is different: more limited electric range in the i8, parallel vs. serial hybrid. Most likely the ICE in the i8 is going to be operating much of the time, with the electric motor providing a performance boost like in the Porsche 918 and McLaren P1. Unlike the Karma, it is not primarily an EV.

The real question is what is the market for a 2-seat sports car that costs $135K+, has a 3 cylinder ICE and goes 0-60 in 4.8 seconds? For the same price I can get a Porsche GT3 that goes 0-60 in 3.3. seconds and has a proper engine note.
 
Fisker Automotive dies; assets go to Hybrid Tech

The Daily Docket: Fisker Files for Chapter 11 - Bankruptcy Beat - WSJ
"Hybrid Technology LLC has agreed to buy Fisker Automotive Inc.’s defaulted federal loan as part of its effort to buy the company, while Fisker filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection as part of the deal, The Wall Street Journal reports."



Hybrid Technology Buys Fisker Automotives Defaulted Loan - WSJ.com

looks like the end of the Fisker line-
Hybrid buys the loan - Fisker files Ch11- stage set for Hybrid to acquire remain gin assets
 
I believe the design center is different: more limited electric range in the i8, parallel vs. serial hybrid. Most likely the ICE in the i8 is going to be operating much of the time, with the electric motor providing a performance boost like in the Porsche 918 and McLaren P1. Unlike the Karma, it is not primarily an EV.

The real question is what is the market for a 2-seat sports car that costs $135K+, has a 3 cylinder ICE and goes 0-60 in 4.8 seconds? For the same price I can get a Porsche GT3 that goes 0-60 in 3.3. seconds and has a proper engine note.

Agreed. I think for a very similar price the Acura NSX has better performance specs. I guess won't know for sure until it hits the market.