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Fisker Karma

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Sounds like you guys could (still?) use some investors.

Yeah, kind of... We're actually self-sustaining by offering engineering, components and prototyping for the industry. But investors are always welcome. :)


Can you point us to the best link that talk about your business plan for the next few years and how such investors might best help? Thanks.


As you can imagine probably - we don't share much publicly. PM sent.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.
 
Image how frustrating it is for me to learn how much support from the government some companies received while we had absolutely zero support. I had to develop most of the car and build the company with the budget some companies had for designing their web-site. Not to mention that we had to develop and produce everything by ourselves.

Well, life is not fair I guess...

Sorry for the drama, I had to vent a bit...

Maybe you make a play for Fisker's market by picking up the piece on the cheap and launch Rimas in America perfecting fiskers cars with your battery technology - I'm sure the us government would fund an inspiring business plan for electrical vehicle maker like yourself. Besides if you have customers for the concept one, people buying that vehicle would have the type of friends who would invest in a venture that can launch EV tech in a luxury market that can compete with Audi, BMW, lexus and Mercedes.
 
As a former Karma owner I have to disagree with you. Maybe some bugs got ironed out (but not all of them). But that's all the improvement that was made.

Even on the most recent cars the engine noise is still terrible (lawn mower-like and noisy), electric range is still below par and far less than promised and the control center is still slow and illogical. Not to mention structural design flaws: the car is too heavy, has a useless (and heavy and expensive) solar roof, adults cannot properly sit in the back, the trunk is tiny and doesn't even fit two golf bags, the wheel base is too long which makes turning in tight spots difficult and wears down the front tires, the front exhaust pipes amplify the engine noise, accelaration on the highway in stealth mode is terrible for a car with 400+ bhp.

I once had some guys pulling up next to me on the highway - at 70 mph - asking me with gestures to step on it, as they were expecting this flashy car to be quite fast. Can you imagine the look on their face (and mine) when I responded and I accelerated at a grueling slow speed. I can asure you that will never happen to me again (in my Model S Performance).

interesting perspective, thx for sharing. i wonder how the karma would've done if just went w a straight ICE engine and skipped all the green stuff. trying to jam all that stuff in there seemed like it made the car cramped, too heavy, and not even very green. everything got compromised. it could've been a competitive car w a mercedes SL550 AMG engine in there and a roomy interior.
 
Image how frustrating it is for me to learn how much support from the government some companies received...

I'll think it's not fair to compare small Balkans state's investments to world only remaining Superpower's investments. Also Fisker Karma supposed to be a mass market product, which C-1 clearly is not... ; )

Maybe when Croatia is part of the EU (next summer?) Rimac can apply to some of the EU funding programs?

I would be more glad if my part of the EU member fees would go to Projects like Rimac, and not to things like the Ghost airport in Spain or isle of "blinds" in Greek...
 
interesting perspective, thx for sharing. i wonder how the karma would've done if just went w a straight ICE engine and skipped all the green stuff. trying to jam all that stuff in there seemed like it made the car cramped, too heavy, and not even very green. everything got compromised. it could've been a competitive car w a mercedes SL550 AMG engine in there and a roomy interior.

i think had Fisker rolled out with the karma s, the sunset, rather then the 4dr version, it would of been a diffrent story. I hope some investor group, or major manufacture sees the value in the designs and make an effort to restructure and right the wrongs. The cars are too Beautiful to see them go away.
 
I hope some investor group, or major manufacture sees the value in the designs and make an effort to restructure and right the wrongs. The cars are too Beautiful to see them go away.

We will see an asset sale at minimum, and then it will be interesting to see what happens with the drawings/designs and other valuable assets. Unfortunately for current owners, warranty liabilities are likely not going to be purchased in such a scenario. But I don't think we have seen the last of these car designs.
 
Image how frustrating it is for me to learn how much support from the government some companies received while we had absolutely zero support.......

Tesla did the same as you with venture capital from 2006 to 2010. Elon Musk being the first and biggest investor (40M). They developed the Roadster on their own. Based on that small scale production and proven technology they were able to convince more investors including the US Government to supply loans for a factory to build passenger cars cheaper and cheaper as they go.

Fisker's promise sort of rode on Tesla's coattails. They had a lower cost car designed (The Atlantic) but they had some well placed politicians that got them the loan. They never collected the full amount since they missed key deadlines.
 
As a former Karma owner I have to disagree with you. Maybe some bugs got ironed out (but not all of them). But that's all the improvement that was made.

Even on the most recent cars the engine noise is still terrible (lawn mower-like and noisy), electric range is still below par and far less than promised and the control center is still slow and illogical. Not to mention structural design flaws: the car is too heavy, has a useless (and heavy and expensive) solar roof, adults cannot properly sit in the back, the trunk is tiny and doesn't even fit two golf bags, the wheel base is too long which makes turning in tight spots difficult and wears down the front tires, the front exhaust pipes amplify the engine noise, accelaration on the highway in stealth mode is terrible for a car with 400+ bhp.

I once had some guys pulling up next to me on the highway - at 70 mph - asking me with gestures to step on it, as they were expecting this flashy car to be quite fast. Can you imagine the look on their face (and mine) when I responded and I accelerated at a grueling slow speed. I can asure you that will never happen to me again (in my Model S Performance).

I have to politely disagree. Here's a quick snapshot of the issues the car of early 2012 faced (some of what you've mentioned) and what's been done since:
- Loud engine noise - I recall the roadshow cars sounded like a cross between a vacuum cleaner and lawn mower and was VERY intrusive at hard acceleration - Muffler 2.0 just about fixed most of the problem by Q2 2012 and a new CIU update in Q3 or thereabouts also reduced noise (by reducing ICE output and borrowing more instant power from the battery - the peak ICE demand is limited to 170hp, which is down significantly from before and much lower than the rated 240hp for the Ecotec 4banger). The engine is still louder at hard accel than say a Lexus or even a BMW, but at least now its in the same general noise band

- Driving speedo screen blackout - Problem fixed in 510 - no longer any issues with the screen resetting

- Command Center sluggishness - Dramatic improvement in the last three software updates; still not iPad quick (about 0.5s delay on initial startup), but once screens are loaded, response is instant (e.g. once radio page is loaded, you get instant haptic feedback as you hit the buttons to change stations etc)

- HV battery failure - This was really more an A123 issue, but most of the early guys like Consumer Reports got replacement batteries that have performed well so far

- Body panel gaps/alignment - Later production Karmas no longer had trunk overbite or hood alignment issues; those cars like mine that had a few of those issues were improved by dealers

- Low end chugging/creep - I think it was the 620 or 624 update that addressed creep chugging issues and how the RDM operated at low speeds; creep is now smooth and low end acceleration is also quieter and "feels" faster in both Stealth and Sport

- Wind noise/rattle from windows - The infamous 'plastic bag' noise at speeds above 60mph is now totally gone - Fisker had a bulletin out the end of last year with a part that fixed that and completely eliminated the noise

- Stranded/no start - Have never had this issue, but those that I know who have report no such issues anymore

- Bluetooth connectivity - Bluetooth now works all the time, though with certain phones, there is still a crackling; rumor was the March update had a new codec for the iphone to fix that but now we may never know!

- Backup camera not functioning - Fixed in 620 - works all the time with no black screen

- Frozen Command Center - Fixed completely in 510. Never had this happen to me, but others have reported this and now it appears to be fixed

- Sluggish acceleration - Fisker did some slight of hand here with acceleration, pulling more power from battery at initial acceleration than it did in the early cars to reduce noise; that said, the car is still comparatively slow to other $100K cars. However, we all knew the stats going into our purchase - they didn't change! Published stats 0-60 in 6.3s in Sport, 7.9s in Stealth. Various car mags have actually reported better numbers (I think MT or Automob mag had 0-60 in 5.9s and 7.5s respectively).

- Check engine light - I've yet to see this come on after I've been on 510.

- Loud charging fans/delayed charging - Also fixed in 510. No longer need to wait for fans to turn off to charge - just plug and go; works like a charm. Also fans are better modulated now so they don't stay on as long or turn as loudly as before

- Fires (haha, sorry, had to include) - fuse and fans replaced!

As for your other complaints/issues:
- electric range - I know people have issues with this - haven't gotten 50 miles on a charge, but I regularly get 39-43 miles per charge depending on how fast I drive and the topography; this is actually a pleasant surprising considering the EPA rated it at only 33 miles (imagine your ICE car with an MPG of 33mpg - ICEs almost NEVER get that high in real life; ditto on the Model S - the Karma actually gets much much higher than the EPA rating in the real world)

- car weight - again, this was known before the first customer cars were delivered; weight matters less in absolute terms - the Karma still handles phenomenally as a GT

- solar roof - agree - mostly decorative, but definitely a conversation starter

- interior space - again, not muched changed from the concept car in 2009 to the production car - a known commodity going into a purchase. I personally haven't had any problems with it - a couple of my 6' friends are fine sitting in the back for short trips; I've always liked the 'cockpit' feel of the four seat pods; you really didn't expect this to be an aftermarket upgrade/change did you?

- trunk space - again, a known commodity before delivery of the cars; you didn't expect Fisker to have an aftermarket change to this either did you?

- long wheel base - again, nothing here is a surprise - the long wheel base is what gives the Karma part of its great looks and handling

Given the car that was delivered in early 2012 and what I have now, the Karma is much improved. Had they delivered today's car last year, the story for the Karma and FA would be quite different.
 
I had the exact same thoughts. The DOE loan payment is due Monday, so that's the latest Fisker can file for bankruptcy that makes any sense.

As to why they didn't just go ahead and do it Friday, I have no idea.

Here's a twist:

U.S. Energy Department says Fisker has repaid $21 mln of loan - chicagotribune.com

"
The U.S. Department of Energy recovered
$21 million cash from struggling green car company Fisker
Automotive that will go toward repaying nearly $200 million in
loans extended under a U.S. program to spur advanced vehicle
development.
The DOE recouped the cash on April 11, DOE spokeswoman Aoife
McCarthy said in a statement. Fisker owes the U.S. government
about $192 million of the $529 million loan it received from the
DOE in 2009.
"
 
U.S. takes $21 million from Fisker as automaker misses payment - Reuters

"The department recouped the company's approximately $21 million reserve account -- funds that came from the company's sales and investors, not our loan- and will apply those funds to the loan," DOE spokeswoman Aoife McCarthy said on Monday.
...
Fisker was expected to make the first payment on that loan on Monday, but a DOE official speaking on the condition of anonymity said Fisker missed the deadline.

A Fisker spokesman was not immediately available to comment on the DOE's announcement on Monday. Two sources said Monday's payment amounted to $10 million. Neither the DOE nor Fisker has confirmed that figure.

Before the DOE swept its account, Fisker had less than $30 million in cash on hand and was struggling to conserve enough cash to avoid breaching a covenant in its pact with the DOE, sources familiar with the company previously said.
...
 
Wouldn't this buy them 3 more months then?

I would think so. But a number of reports are calling this a seizure by the DOE, not a payment and some state that Fisker missed its payment that was due today.
Seems very odd one party would seize funds before the payment was due, then turn around and say the first party missed the payment.
In any event, we should get clarification soon.
 
I have to politely disagree. Here's a quick snapshot of the issues the car of early 2012 faced (some of what you've mentioned) and what's been done since:
...
Given the car that was delivered in early 2012 and what I have now, the Karma is much improved. Had they delivered today's car last year, the story for the Karma and FA would be quite different.

you're taking him too literally. of course he didnt expect trunk space and interior space to be upgraded at all. the point he was making is that those are some lousy things about the car that hurt sales overall and can never get better. and you say they were known commodities going in. were they?? if you placed an order before seeing a car were you able to thoroughly inspect and test drive the car before buying?? i dont know. getting some dimensions off a spec sheet is NOT the same as seeing it for yourself. how many people are looking at trunk specs. if you're buying a $100k 4dr sedan you're going to expect reasonable trunk space and interior. can you determine interior space off a spec sheet?? i couldnt. i'd have to sit in it to know for sure.

anyway, you make it sound like simply cuz those are things that are known going in that they're not negatives, however, most people will view those things as a negative in a $100k car. you like the cockpit feeling of the car's pods. well, luxury sedans promote their cars' roominess, not their "crampedness". a lot of the negatives you brush off and somehow think things would've been different for fisker if those early flaws hadnt occurred. the fixed bugs dont make up for the permanent flaws: cramped, slow, expensive for what you get. considering the karma's competition, it's those major problems (that you simply dismiss) that would have made the outcome for fisker not be any different. however, im glad you are able to look past those things and be happy w your car.
 
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