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Fisker Karma

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This makes me wonder again about the as-yet-to-be-demonstrated Karma drivetrain. It's been a little hard to nail down. Supposedly serial, but some statements make it seem parallel. Somehow I doubt they're able to implement an engineering solution as clever as the Volt. And yet preliminary reports give the Volt disappointing figures for efficiency.
Makes me glad again that the Whitestar/Model S went back to pure EV.
Though I must say they cater to two very different markets. Even I have to say that the Karma does have a luxury car design, which can't really be said for the Volt. I'm not sure that I like it, but I see the appeal. Secondly I doubt the Karma's customers cares that much about consumption or they would go for the Model S which from an enviromental standpoint is the no compromise option.

Interesting to see how it actually compares to the S400 Hybrid from MB.

Cobos
 
Appears it's strictly series hybrid:

transmission.jpg

battery.jpg


If you go here and do the math, you get 320 Wh/mile in electric mode and 25 mpg in range extended mode.
 
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I requested a deposit refund for the Fisker Karma on Sept 9th and still have yet to receive my check. Fisker emailed me today saying they are going to issue the check at the end of this week after my multiple emails to find out what the status of the check. Fisker's head of customer service called me shortly after my refund request to find out why I wanted the refund but ever since then, I've found they have been slow to respond to my emails.

The 9th was around the same time I started talks with Tesla on getting a demo Roadster. Took delivery of my Roadster on Sept 29 which came from the Boulder, Colorado store (I'm in LA). I guess the time it's taking Fisker to issue my check is a reflection of their production schedule delays. This experience with Fisker reaffirms my decision in going with the Roadster. So glad I didn't hold out for the Fisker, if and when it comes to market...
 
Further poking around on their site found this:
(yet another "typo"... kw/h... what is that? Kilowatts per hour?)

200kW peak from 20kWh... So I guess they can do 10C from their pack(!) Maybe they can get 400hp for short bursts.
10C is obviously out of the realm for 18650 lithium cobalt cells, but you can get 10C from lithium polymer packs. You can Google for lithium polymer packs for RC airplanes and find lithium polymer packs that can do 10C continuously and 15C in bursts.

I once found a pdf with max discharge rates for a bunch of different battery types, but I'm going to have to dig for it.
 
Secondly I doubt the Karma's customers cares that much about consumption or they would go for the Model S which from an enviromental standpoint is the no compromise option
Sorry, but as someone who has a Roadster and also an order for a Fisker, I take exception to your characterization that a Karma customer does not "cares that much about consumption or they would go for the Model S." I don't take personal offense, ;-) more an offense to the masses who believe that it is all EV or nothing. It's dangerous to think that you can convince the masses to wean off their addiction to foreign oil by going from an all ICE car to an EV without any steps in between. The Prius took the football down the field after the EV-1 did not make believers out of everyone. The PHEVs will take the ball down the field even more, 'teaching' people how simple it is to plug a car in without giving them the range anxiety (GM lawyers... am I allowed to say that?) until they get over that fear. The Fisker will bring PHEVs down field by making it sexy and luxurious to own & use a PHEV. All of these steps serve to convert people slowly but surely.

The problem will be if one of these conversion processes goes awry. There are PHEVs and EVs coming to market in the next 12 months that if they even have a hiccup will be labeled by some as a failure which will trickle down to the masses as telling them to stay away from EVs. My friend who has a Lambo was one of the 1st to point fingers at some of my Tesla service tales of woe, telling me that is why he would not buy a car from a start-up, yet he completely ignored the fact that for nearly a year he was telling me tales of woe about the Lamborghini dealership service not being able to fix his engine grinding for nearly a year! Perception is reality to some! The EV community should be a 'big tent' group and realize that there are 31 flavors of ice-cream and that we need the variation of flavors to score a touch down for the EV!
 
Fisker emailed me today saying they are going to issue the check at the end of this week after my multiple emails to find out what the status of the check.
Welcome to the Tesla Club! Others in this chat thread have requested refunds from Fisker and though it took awhile according to their posts, eventually did get that check. Please keep us updated as to when you get it. I'm getting a feeling that I may be next to put in that request.
 
We asked for and received our Karma check. (read back in this thread for timings). When then applied it to the Roadster charity Auction which also ended up sending us back our check.

Maybe we should just buy some Tesla stock with it.
 
Sorry, but as someone who has a Roadster and also an order for a Fisker, I take exception to your characterization that a Karma customer does not "cares that much about consumption or they would go for the Model S." I don't take personal offense, ;-) more an offense to the masses who believe that it is all EV or nothing. It's dangerous to think that you can convince the masses to wean off their addiction to foreign oil by going from an all ICE car to an EV without any steps in between. The Prius took the football down the field after the EV-1 did not make believers out of everyone. The PHEVs will take the ball down the field even more, 'teaching' people how simple it is to plug a car in without giving them the range anxiety (GM lawyers... am I allowed to say that?) until they get over that fear. The Fisker will bring PHEVs down field by making it sexy and luxurious to own & use a PHEV. All of these steps serve to convert people slowly but surely.

The problem will be if one of these conversion processes goes awry. There are PHEVs and EVs coming to market in the next 12 months that if they even have a hiccup will be labeled by some as a failure which will trickle down to the masses as telling them to stay away from EVs. My friend who has a Lambo was one of the 1st to point fingers at some of my Tesla service tales of woe, telling me that is why he would not buy a car from a start-up, yet he completely ignored the fact that for nearly a year he was telling me tales of woe about the Lamborghini dealership service not being able to fix his engine grinding for nearly a year! Perception is reality to some! The EV community should be a 'big tent' group and realize that there are 31 flavors of ice-cream and that we need the variation of flavors to score a touch down for the EV!
You are of course right in that we need PHEV as well as pure EVs. What I was trying to say and failing was that my impression of the Karma customer doesn't really care that much about a CS mode of say 25 or 30mpg. The fact that there is a CS mode should be enough to tickle their enviromentalist bone, as in if they are truely obsessed with the green aspect then they would go for the Model S. Does that make more sense?

Cobos
 
Seriuosly?!! This article has a lot of damaging tidbits in it.

They say that
Karma, which as a series plug-in hybrid has no universally acceptable means of measuring its gas mileage,
which to me says they don't know. If they did they would say so. Tesla has been very exact and consistent in predicting range numbers. Fisker is looking downright amateurish. They also seem amateur because it seems all those fancy styling flourishes done by the company owner has done so at the expense of lightweight and distance driving.

Lastly the article say the will stat production of the car in five months from now! You know how when a film studio has a really bad movie they do not screen it for critics? This is looking same same.
 
Seriuosly?!! This article has a lot of damaging tidbits in it.

They say that which to me says they don't know. If they did they would say so. Tesla has been very exact and consistent in predicting range numbers. Fisker is looking downright amateurish. They also seem amateur because it seems all those fancy styling flourishes done by the company owner has done so at the expense of lightweight and distance driving.

Lastly the article say the will stat production of the car in five months from now! You know how when a film studio has a really bad movie they do not screen it for critics? This is looking same same.

I really don't see them saying anything other than what is already well known.

Until the EPA settles on the Fuel Economy Label for plug in hybrids there is no universally accepted means for reporting such.


For the record, they have published all pertinent energy use information on their site here

Based on this they show the following:
50 miles of all electric range using 16 kWh followed by 25 mpg gas mileage