Fisker Karma

[TEG]

Those engines are for "project Nina" the smaller, lower price Fisker sedan. Perhaps more like Tesla "bluestar", so it is expected to be higher volume than Model S.

 

[smorgasbord]

Those engines are for "project Nina" the smaller, lower price Fisker sedan. Perhaps more like Tesla "bluestar", so it is expected to be higher volume than Model S.

According to this version of the story, the Nina is supposed to cost about $50K, or half what the Karma costs. That's close to Model S territory.

 

[TEG]

I wasn't supposed to cost that much...

Archived-Articles: A $500 Million Dollar Car?

...[FONT=times new roman,times]Nina's list price is $39K and production will occur in a former Delaware GM plant...

Sales projections were probably based on the lower price. If they have raised the price $10K+ then they may not sell as many.

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[doug]

If you watch the EVWorld interview with Ray Lane I posted above, he says the Nina is going to be a $50K to $60K car. That is a bit more than we had heard before. The interviewer said he thought it was supposed to be a $40K car, and Lane said that was after tax breaks.

Regardless, that volume is probably a bit optimistic.

Btw, there are supposed to be three versions of the Nina: the sedan, an SUV/crossover, and something else (perhaps a coupe).

 

[TEG]

| ElectroVelocity | Fisker Automotive The Karma and Project Nina

...Fisker is not so secretly working on “Project Nina” which, as Joe Biden so kindly overshared with us all last year, will consist of a coupe, a sedan and a crossover and we are expecting to see these hitting the road in late 2012 or early 2013 at targeted price point of $40,000 USD before tax credits. That should place it at the high end of the affordable car market for middle class America...

Fisker, the vast rightwing conspiracy, and the $528 Mil DOE loan - National Green Transportation | Examiner.com

...This second car is what Fisker calls Project NINA and is targeted at a more modest $39,000 list price and will be produced in the U.S...

Perhaps articles like the above were the result of them not qualifying "after" credits well enough?



How is this for confusing:
Biden Blurts Out Fisker Nina Plug-In Hybrid Line: Sedan, Coupe, Crossover

Fisker's Nina will join a growing number of compact or midsize plug-in cars aiming for $40,000 price, before or after a $7,500 Federal tax credit. The best-known is the 2011 Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric vehicle, followed by the fully electric 2012 Nissan Leaf.

First Fisker Karma EV Delivered to KP's Ray Lane : Greentech Media

Both the Karma and Chevy Volt qualify for a $7,500 federal tax credit.

The Karma will cost around $95,000 for a base model, up from earlier estimates of $80,000. The Nina, a mid-range sedan, is slated for 2012 and will cost around $40,000. Tesla's sedan is due in 2012, as well.

Isn't that $95K Karma price before the credit, but the $40K Nina price is now said to be after the credit (and still too low?)



Anyways, I think the Nina was thought of as competing with Volt, and Leaf, not the more upscale Model S which is more a competitor for Karma.

 

[TEG]

Speaking of the $7,500 'credit'. What happened to the effort to make that something that the dealers factor into the pre-purchase price rather than having customers claim it on next year's taxes?

If you watch the EVWorld interview with Ray Lane I posted above, he says the Nina is going to be a $50K to $60K car. That is a bit more than we had heard before.

Yes, we have seen that Fisker is not afraid to raise prices after earlier announcing something lower.

 

[doug]

Anyways, I think the Nina was thought of as competing with Volt, and Leaf, not the more upscale Model S which is more a competitor for Karma.

Yes, but now it looks like it will be more of a direct competitor to the Cadillac ELR/Converj. I really doubt they'll ship by 2012.

 

[Mark06GT]

I saw a Fisker at a UTI car show last month. The UTI mechanics are being trained to maintain and troubleshoot the Karma. Every mechanic that I talked to had nothing good to say about the car except for its looks. The software, electronics and the integration of electric drive with the ICE were described as unreliable nightmares. The car that was on display at the show consistently breaks down. They weren’t even sure they were going to be able to drive it from the garage to the parking lot for the show.

 

[suxxer]

the integration of electric drive with the ICE were described as unreliable nightmares.

Integration of ICE and electric drive IS a nightmare by definition.

 

[doug]

Updated website: Fisker Automotive

More EVer and fewer high heals.

 

[doug]

Lot of info here:
Fisker's ambitious model plans detailed - Car and Car-Buying News - What Car?

 

[TEG]

IMG]http://www.toyworldusa.com/media/25/a207919131bb2c5bcd91f8_m.JPG[/IMG]

 

[AnOutsider]

Lot of info here:
Fisker's ambitious model plans detailed - Car and Car-Buying News - What Car?

Hmm... I thought Fisker was aiming for earlier than 2014 with its SUV. In any case, the plans seem to reach to 2017 and it seems Fisker has no plans of getting rid of the ICE through that period. It does mention the new Karma in 2017 having an engine that would burn cleaner fuels and reduce emissions.

I don't know... It all feels like Henrik just wanted his own line of cars (and not coachbuilds) and didn't think his brand would take off as a traditional, so he opted to throw around the "EV" and "green" thing to drum up hype and funding. Doesn't seem THAT dedicated to making efficient cars -- just pretty ones.

 

[doug]

I'd agree with that. He partnered with (the inappropriately named) Quantum Technologies on the Karma drivetrain. Sounds like the Nina will be rather different (with a multi-gear setup) and future Karma's will get that Nina drivetrain.

 

[TEG]

...I don't know... It all feels like Henrik just wanted his own line of cars (and not coachbuilds) and didn't think his brand would take off as a traditional, so he opted to throw around the "EV" and "green" thing to drum up hype and funding. Doesn't seem THAT dedicated to making efficient cars -- just pretty ones.

Well there is the whole "Tesla had approached him, and gave him a bunch of ideas" angle to consider...

 

[AnOutsider]

Well there is the whole "Tesla had approached him, and gave him a bunch of ideas" angle to consider...

That too. However he arrived there though, I don't think making EVs or "Green" cars are his priority.

 

[vfx]

The Surf and Nina should have their own threads.

 

[ljbad4life]

I don't understand why Fisker isn't developing it's own engine (at this point)or using lotus' specifically designed ICE for range extender! Using an off the shelf ICE that's meant to motivate a car is not going to perform optimally for generating. It will do the job, but I'm sure a ICE generator will improve mpg.

 

[TEG]

A little history on the GM engine choice:
Fisker Raids GM to Build His Hybrid | Autopia | Wired.com

 

[AnOutsider]

I don't understand why Fisker isn't developing it's own engine (at this point)or using lotus' specifically designed ICE for range extender! Using an off the shelf ICE that's meant to motivate a car is not going to perform optimally for generating. It will do the job, but I'm sure a ICE generator will improve mpg.

Likely because he doesn't really care. BMW engine under the hood sounds better than some lotus optimized range extender thingy! (being facetious, but still).