FSD going up 8/16

[Knightshade]

Elon Musk promised that FSD-equipped cars would drive themselves without anybody in them.

Yes, but he didn't promise they'd do that TODAY.

He promised that my car had all the hardware needed for that

And indeed anybody who bought it is getting a HW upgrade to keep that promise. If more upgrades end up needed they'd get those free too.

and implied that I could upgrade my car to that some time while I still owned it.

"implied"?

Every time I've seen FSD listed for sale it has a paragraph of disclaimers pointing out there's no definite delivery date due to both developing tech and regulatory issues.

I am educated enough on the subject, and well-enough aware of Musk's chrono-optimism, that I didn't buy that particular pig in a poke. I am happy with my car which was worth every penny I paid for it with EAP. But a lot of potential car buyers believed Musk when he said the FSD-equipped car would drive itself with nobody in it. That's very different from calling the most vile apple in the world "delicious" or calling sea stars and sea jellies "fish."

That's true- Tesla still intends to delivery driving-itself-with-nobody-in-it cars eventually... while a jellyfish will never be a fish.

The functions in the "FSD" package will be beta and Level 2 for at least 5 years.

PLEASE SHARE THE SOURCE OF THIS HIGHLY SPECIFIC INSIDER TIMELINE!

I'll be interested to see if Enhanced Summon will really be able to drive around inside a parking lot to pick you up.

There's videos out there of EAP (early access program) owners with enhanced summon having it do just that (and quite a bit faster in the most recent ones)

 

[daniel]

If real full-self driving arrives in 10 years, most of the people who paid for FSD this year will no longer own their car. They'll have paid for something they never got. That's why I said it was dishonest for Musk to tell buyers their cars would do that if it does not arrive during the time period that people typically keep a new car. It's a pig in a poke. "Your car will drive itself," and then in the fine print "... but that might not happen for fifteen years."

He is selling something that does not even exist, but that he promises will exist some day. This is IMO a shady practice. Which is sad because these cars as they are today are the best cars on the road.

And it should have been obvious that my 5-year statement was my opinion. I don't need to cite sources if I say that chocolate is better than vanilla because it's obviously an opinion.

 

[Knightshade]

If real full-self driving arrives in 10 years, most of the people who paid for FSD this year will no longer own their car. They'll have paid for something they never got. That's why I said it was dishonest for Musk to tell buyers their cars would do that if it does not arrive during the time period that people typically keep a new car.

Ok... but it's barely even been for sale for 2 at this point.

He is selling something that does not even exist

Again- that stopped a few months ago. What is sold now exists, and has numerous, specific, working-today, features but promises to continue adding even more features over time. You just dislike its name.

 

[TexasTeslaRacing]

Wait for it to go on sale and when you can use it in real life situations. It's just vaporware right now.

 

[Knightshade]

Wait for it to go on sale and when you can use it in real life situations. It's just vaporware right now.

Again, for all new buyers since ~March (or any buyer ever who didn't buy EAP when it was available) that is simply not true. FSD today includes NoA, lane change, self parking, summon...basically every feature that used to be in EAP except for TACC and single-lane-auto-steer.

 

[cucubits]

Again, for all new buyers since ~March (or any buyer ever who didn't buy EAP when it was available) that is simply not true. FSD today includes NoA, lane change, self parking, summon...basically every feature that used to be in EAP except for TACC and single-lane-auto-steer.

Except for NoA which lets say is marginally useful at this point, the rest are vaporware. Fine, lane change is nice but not $7k worth nice. Self parking and summon, useless for now (self parking slow, summon not even there yet).

 

[Knightshade]

Except for NoA which lets say is marginally useful at this point, the rest are vaporware.

You don't appear to understand what that word means.

But by all means if the list of non-vaporware features aren't worth it to you, don't buy them.

 

[cucubits]

Yeah ok, I may have used it wrong but I got my idea through. I don't understand why it's going up in price when it's nowhere near what it was advertised to be.

Who knows, maybe they'll release an update when the price goes up and summon will be magical and new features will be added and NoA will work better... who knows. For now, I won't throw away my $ on FSD for sure.

 

[Knightshade]

Yeah ok, I may have used it wrong but I got my idea through. I don't understand why it's going up in price when it's nowhere near what it was advertised to be.

Who knows, maybe they'll release an update when the price goes up and summon will be magical and new features will be added and NoA will work better... who knows. For now, I won't throw away my $ on FSD for sure.

Allegedly the price increase is happening about the same time enhanced summon gets released.

If they go with that model you could expect the next price bump to be later this year when they add the stoplight/stop sign recognition and/or city navigation.

 

[TexasTeslaRacing]

I’ll buy it when it can pick me up while I’m across the county on vacation. That’s worth $$$.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Yeah ok, I may have used it wrong but I got my idea through. I don't understand why it's going up in price when it's nowhere near what it was advertised to be.

Who knows, maybe they'll release an update when the price goes up and summon will be magical and new features will be added and NoA will work better... who knows. For now, I won't throw away my $ on FSD for sure.

1) Tesla wants the money _now_
2) FSD is pure margin at this point
3) It is exploiting FOMO for gain/to reduce losses
4) Tesla is spending money developing software and as long as people don't buy it, that money is lost, and loss means interest and the balance sheet looking worse.

 

[jebinc]

See also-

Peanuts aren't really nuts (they're legumes)
White chocolate isn't really chocolate (no cocoa nibs)
Fireflies aren't flies- they're beetles!
Koala bears aren't bears- they're marsupials!
We park on driveways but drive on parkways!
Guinea pigs aren't pigs at all, they're rodents!
Jellyfish aren't even fish, they're cnidarians! (likewise starfish ain't fish!)
Strawberries aren't even berries- but bananas ARE berries!



It's almost like you have to do a minute of research to understand what a thing is beyond just looking at the name...weird!

You forgot an important one - "A Tomato is not a vegetable, it's a fruit"!

 

[Rachmaninov]

I just bought the FSD because of some of the things it can do now, the promise of much greater functionality in the future and to help support Tesla to accomplish those goals.

 

[Octo]

You don't appear to understand what that word means.

But by all means if the list of non-vaporware features aren't worth it to you, don't buy them.

LOL. YOU, who considers the silly L2 assistant systems (that often don’t even work well), a FULL SELF DRIVING product, lecture others about the meaning of a word?!?

With your logic, I could call the sun a sofa.

 

[Knightshade]

LOL. YOU, who considers the silly L2 assistant systems (that often don’t even work well), a FULL SELF DRIVING product, lecture others about the meaning of a word?!?

Given I've never actually done or said that you are again building a strawman- which is about the only type of argument I've ever seen you produce.

 

[hlin07]

I just bought the FSD because of some of the things it can do now, the promise of much greater functionality in the future and to help support Tesla to accomplish those goals.

Kudos to you, as long as you continue to believe what you did was to help advancement of a better future, you'll be alright. Though when the price drops in order to attract more sales, a lot of people that bought FSD will be pissed.
Don't be one of them.

I would love to support Tesla, but I just don't have to wallet to support them so I'll hold out until the price comes down significantly.

 

[Octo]

Given I've never actually done or said that you are again building a strawman- which is about the only type of argument I've ever seen you produce.

In your universe of flexible word definition, I’ll use my privilege to define “strawman” as “coherent and well thought through” and take it as a great compliment.

 

[daniel]

... What is sold now exists, and has numerous, specific, working-today, features but promises to continue adding even more features over time.

Elon Musk defined FSD several years ago: "The car will drive itself across town with nobody in it." This does not exist, and (in my opinion!) is ten years away at least.

Then Tesla stopped offering EAP for sale, requiring people to pay for the vaporware FSD package if they wanted to get the features in EAP. But with the promise that the car will drive itself "real soon now."

It's not a question of whether or not I like the name. It's a matter of promising something (Elon's definition) which he's still promising, but which does not exist.

I’ll buy it when it can pick me up while I’m across the county on vacation. That’s worth $$$.

Heck, I'll pay for it when it lets me take my eyes off the road and my hands off the wheel and lets me daydream in the driver's seat and alerts me at least 15 seconds before I have to take over control, and that happens on average less than once every 5 or 10 minutes of driving and otherwise drives itself more than 85% of the time. IOW, Level 3. That won't be what Elon is still promising "real soon now" but it will be enough for me to pony up an additional ten or fifteen thousand dollars.

But I'm not going to pay for it until it exists. NoA/city at Level 2 is not worth it to me.

 

[Knightshade]

Elon Musk defined FSD several years ago: "The car will drive itself across town with nobody in it." This does not exist, and (in my opinion!) is ten years away at least.

He defined the end goal of FSD there.

Tesla has always been very, very, very clear that reaching that goal would involve a gradual release of steps toward that goal and that's exactly what they've been doing.

Then Tesla stopped offering EAP for sale

Becuase tons of people, including in many, many, many threads on here, kept bitching "I don't want to pay $5000 for all these extra features, just give me a cheap option for TACC/AS!"

So they did. The new AP.

And moved the rest to FSD.

And now folks are bitching about THAT.

Can't make everyone happy I suppose.

NoA/city at Level 2 is not worth it to me.

Then don't buy it.

Last I checked nobody was holding a gun to your head to do so.[/QUOTE]