It is fast to default and a trick to "hold it" is to use the touch screen like zoom in a little and then zoom out a little while studying. This gives you more time to select an alternate.Well I'm a dope. I'd read too many out of date posts, some above - and faint gray alternate routes are so subtle vs the bright blue, I hadn't noticed, but you're right. Thanks.
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FSD now $8,000. Who's buying?
- Thread starter Elektrick
- Start date
I have an early 2023 Model 3 bought new from inventory ( to ensure I'd get the $7500 tax credit) and it has EAP with of course most features still disabled.
First an observation I haven't seen elsewhere, and then 2 questions.
Early on, I tried out AutoSteer and TACC, and found the experience both interesting and very stressful. Aviation experience seems to show that humans aren't very good at monitoring machines, and some racetrack instructing experience reveals that it's way more comfortable to be in the passenger seat when the driver drives like one expects.
This effect is highlighted when in AutoSteer in the lane centering algorithm (this was from the V11 days) when it turned out that the car wanted to be way closer to the center line than my own normal practice, and in fact usually positioned itself left of center (driving in the US). I'm probably right of center, and I think this is because if things go wrong it seems preferable (if driving at say 60mph) to have a 60mph impact with something stationary than a 120mph one with on coming traffic. I wondered why there was no lane centering trim adjustment similar to the following distance trim in TACC. The lack of this meant I rarely used AutoSteer, and kept me away from the idea of spending my money to test AutoSteer or FSD for Tesla. They should have been paying me for this!
I'm now in my FSD trial, and lane centering in FSD is different now, but still often stressful.
The 2 questions. Autopark in the current V12 FSD trial seems mostly usable for 90 degree parking; parallel parking when there is a wall just next to the curb defeats it.
Is there any knowledge of whether Autopark will remain when my FSD trial ends? It's been paid for for over a year now.
And getting back to the original question of this thread, I don't see paying $8000 for FSD as being good value yet (at some point it might be). When it is (or if it is, the price may have gone back up). The occasional monthly purchase for $99 or $199 seems more attractive.
But the arithmtic done to compare the outright purchase with the subscription price that I've seen on this forum seems to assume that the currect prices remain static, and I don't think that's a given. Or is it? Has the forum noticed something that I haven't?
Of course as I've already bought EAP, my own comparison is between $99/month and a one off $2000 for FSD. That's still not compelling for me, but it is more attractive, and I see at least 2 other thread contribuors have already jumped on this. If I believe that when FSD gets better in the future, and is worth paying for, then the price will go up, then I should also go for it now.
First an observation I haven't seen elsewhere, and then 2 questions.
Early on, I tried out AutoSteer and TACC, and found the experience both interesting and very stressful. Aviation experience seems to show that humans aren't very good at monitoring machines, and some racetrack instructing experience reveals that it's way more comfortable to be in the passenger seat when the driver drives like one expects.
This effect is highlighted when in AutoSteer in the lane centering algorithm (this was from the V11 days) when it turned out that the car wanted to be way closer to the center line than my own normal practice, and in fact usually positioned itself left of center (driving in the US). I'm probably right of center, and I think this is because if things go wrong it seems preferable (if driving at say 60mph) to have a 60mph impact with something stationary than a 120mph one with on coming traffic. I wondered why there was no lane centering trim adjustment similar to the following distance trim in TACC. The lack of this meant I rarely used AutoSteer, and kept me away from the idea of spending my money to test AutoSteer or FSD for Tesla. They should have been paying me for this!
I'm now in my FSD trial, and lane centering in FSD is different now, but still often stressful.
The 2 questions. Autopark in the current V12 FSD trial seems mostly usable for 90 degree parking; parallel parking when there is a wall just next to the curb defeats it.
Is there any knowledge of whether Autopark will remain when my FSD trial ends? It's been paid for for over a year now.
And getting back to the original question of this thread, I don't see paying $8000 for FSD as being good value yet (at some point it might be). When it is (or if it is, the price may have gone back up). The occasional monthly purchase for $99 or $199 seems more attractive.
But the arithmtic done to compare the outright purchase with the subscription price that I've seen on this forum seems to assume that the currect prices remain static, and I don't think that's a given. Or is it? Has the forum noticed something that I haven't?
Of course as I've already bought EAP, my own comparison is between $99/month and a one off $2000 for FSD. That's still not compelling for me, but it is more attractive, and I see at least 2 other thread contribuors have already jumped on this. If I believe that when FSD gets better in the future, and is worth paying for, then the price will go up, then I should also go for it now.
Tam
Well-Known Member
You said you had EAP. EAP does have Autopark.
Thus, once your FSD trial is taken away, you should still have your EAP back as well as Autopark.
Can you please send a screenshot where in the website it states that? My Tesla SC is charging me an additional $1000 for the upgrade to HW3. I'd like to show it to them so they can eat their words please. Thanks.
Attachments
Autopark was never enabled on my 2023 MYLR with EAP.
Using the demo FSD this month and while it does have issues it definitely does better than EAP. I never used any of the (few) enabled features of EAP, except manually initiated lane changes, because they are all so bad. In it’s current form, Autopark is effectively unusable. I can back into a spot and parallel park better and faster myself.
The thing that really bothers me with FSD, is the inability to use only TACC. On the freeway, FSD does fairly well. Does ok on local highways, most of the time. Beyond that, I would prefer to be able to just use cruise control. TACC can be engaged, but not without jumping through some hoops. Would really like the single/double pull enabled with FSD.
Tam
Well-Known Member
True because it was delayed, not because it was not included in the price of EAP.
Mercedes Benz EV have the highest depreciation value of all EV brands LOL
Now I don't hate Mercedes, I've owned two over the years. I think they stop being Mercedes around 2010. This short read on Rolex imo applies to Mercedes also except Mercedes hasn't quite found its way home; they are still searching for their new identity. Rolex Is Finally Acting Like Rolex Again—and We Couldn’t Be Happier
Now I don't hate Mercedes, I've owned two over the years. I think they stop being Mercedes around 2010. This short read on Rolex imo applies to Mercedes also except Mercedes hasn't quite found its way home; they are still searching for their new identity. Rolex Is Finally Acting Like Rolex Again—and We Couldn’t Be Happier
Ben W
Chess Grandmaster (Supervised)
To be fair, the questioner asked a too-extreme question. They essentially asked, "Will you commit to providing free FSD transferability in perpetuity to all owners until Tesla's autonomy reaches L5?" That strongly deserved a No answer, not least because true L5 is probably 15 years away, but also because most of FSD's value will be realized long before that. (L4 with a wide ODD will come far sooner, and is nearly as useful as L5.) A better question might have been: "Do you plan to do anything to facilitate or encourage owners to stay in the Tesla ecosystem who would like to transfer their fully-purchased FSD to a new car, pending the arrival of L3 or L4 capability, given FSD having been so consistently over-promised and under-delivered?" (No doubt this could be phrased more elegantly or tactfully, but this might have realistically gotten a more nuanced answer besides "No".)
I expect that at some point Tesla will officially concede that HW3 will never gain L4 capability, and perhaps at that point they may offer some credit for upgrading/transferring HW3 FSD to a newer car. (Or risk scorching lawsuits.) Maybe eventually HW4 as well. I strongly wish someone had asked whether the current fleet may eventually be retrofittable with more powerful computers, e.g. HW5, if that's what's required for L4 FSD. And I hope Tesla will at least periodically offer at least some credit for FSD transfer, e.g. "Transfer FSD for $2000", if not outright free. But as it stands, with no credit and no incentive to stay with Tesla, my most appealing option may be to sell my HW3 FSD car (to someone who would value its L2 FSD capability) and buy a non-Tesla. Even a small credit toward FSD transfer would go a long way towards earning back my loyalty and keeping me in the Tesla ecosystem. Principle counts for a lot.
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Yes! My beloved flight instructor, who was also my father-in-law, would say "An autopilot is a device designed to put the aircraft wreckage close to an airport."
That has been my experience with V12. It will be OK just long enough to make me think that it shows promise... then it does something stunningly dumb and dangerous. I had considered that all the dithering and jumping about that shows up in the virtual model display might be related to a unique glitch with my particular car, but all the YouTube videos show the same sort of thing. Occasionally, I will think that it is much like having a drunk at the wheel.
In a parking lot, the guy behind me was getting understandably irked, because my car could not figure out what to do about a person with a shopping cart who was well clear of my projected path. Had I or any normal human been driving, there would have been no delay at all: there was no chance that this person was going to suddenly back up and do a suicidal jump. Tessy was thoroughly confused, and far more cautious than necessary. On the highway, however, she thinks nothing of steering right into the path of an overtaking car, apparently having completely missed its existence, despite perfect weather. Fascinating mix of obsessive-compulsive / manic-depressive / fabulously dim-witted... with a bad hangover thrown in.
I'd put the date before that. In 1960, they were relatively simple and well-engineered and well-assembled. The 300SL gullwing (mid 50s) was a fabulous car. The diesels from the 60's were rock solid, in terms of reliability. But I think that by the mid 1970's, the frequency-of-repair records, as tracked by Consumer Reports, were trending upward. The 1976 Honda Accord was both refined and reliable, and Toyota was producing reliable although unexciting cars. Volvo and Mercedes were both falling behind in reliability. As they have both become more luxurious and sportier, their reliability has gone downhill, and repair costs have skyrocketed.
On my 2024 MYLR moving the stalk to the first detent engages cruise; moving it to the second engages FSD. Is that what you mean by single/double pull?
electrifyme
Member
FSD would need to be at a point where I don't need to babysit it. After that is done, present a price to me. I'm not paying for a promise that may never come.
Prior to the FSD demo with my EAP, it was one pull down to engage TACC or two pulls to engage autosteer with TACC. If you recall, a couple months ago they made a menu option to be able to just have a single pull for full engagement. That option is greyed out when FSD is selected in the Autopilot menu.
I will try your technique next time.
If that doesn’t work, supposedly can setup different user profiles. One with FSD on and another with it off. I haven’t tried this.
I just bought FSD for $2k, the price being that because we bought EAP when with our new Y last September.
We bought EAP because it seemed like the best bang for the buck, and we use(d) it quite a bit on freeways and almost never on secondary roads. We got two months of FSD through a referral and didn't think it worth it.
The current demo showed FSD to be much improved over what we remembered it to be six months ago. We've used it quite a bit on all road types and engage it about 85% of the time on freeways and 50% on secondary roads. While remaining aware that we need to monitor, we find that overall it makes the drive significantly easier. We're also optimistic enough to think that it will continue to improve.
YMMV, and I find it interesting that reactions to this one month free trial of FSD are so all over the place.
We bought EAP because it seemed like the best bang for the buck, and we use(d) it quite a bit on freeways and almost never on secondary roads. We got two months of FSD through a referral and didn't think it worth it.
The current demo showed FSD to be much improved over what we remembered it to be six months ago. We've used it quite a bit on all road types and engage it about 85% of the time on freeways and 50% on secondary roads. While remaining aware that we need to monitor, we find that overall it makes the drive significantly easier. We're also optimistic enough to think that it will continue to improve.
YMMV, and I find it interesting that reactions to this one month free trial of FSD are so all over the place.
golfpilot
Member
If you subscribe to FSD, yeah you need to pay the $1000. That may be what they are referring too.
I just did the EAP to FSD upgrade and the invoice for the 2.5 to 3.0 upgrade was $0
Full Self-Driving updates almost instantly in the car upon purchase and you make a service appointment to update the hardware
Found it for you!
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golfpilot
Member
August 2018 Model 3. I don’t think they replaced the side cameras but they had noticeably less yellow tint after the hardware upgrade. No idea why. The only real downside to the upgrade is a reset of WiFi blutooth and home link settings, reset of all “trip odometers”, and the backup camera seems to have slightly more lag than before.
One of my favorite things about the car when I first got it was the constant improvements in software, especially EAP. That came to a total halt. This FSD is really exciting to me. IMO well worth the $2k
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