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Discussion in 'Autopilot & Autonomous/FSD' started by Apoztel, Aug 12, 2019.
For those of you who have FSD and long range, if you had to give up one which would it be?
Range is King!
You can always get FSD in the future once you save enough.
FSD is borderline useless now. You're paying a lot what's basically a gamble which may or may not pay off in the future if they get it working.
Range - you can use now!
I'd get rid of Long Range. The times that I use the range are rare. The times that the SR would cover the range that I need 100%, AFAIK.
FSD is a just about an everyday event for me. I don't change lanes anymore.
Range is more important than anything else for any EV I own. I enjoy long EV road trips.
You can add FSD later, but can't add range...
Having both LR AWD and FSD, I can confidently recommend LR first....
You mean choose to have FSD over LR? That's what the poll is asking?
Yes, I had to read it a few times too
I'd give up LR, because I don't need to use it. Not doing many long trips with small kids.
But when buying I'd buy LR first, since I can add FSD later.
I mean, having both, if faced with the choice the OP has, I would choose LR over FSD today. FSD can be added later if the OP finds value in it. If I have to give up one today, I would give up FSD for the same reason. I like having less of a range limitation than what FSD offers today.
Now that my 2 kids are out of car seats, the 3 makes a great road trip car. I’ll take the Tesla if it’s 6 hours or less. Any more and it’s the Sienna, which drives like a boat.
Considering none of us actually has FSD I would give up the pre-paid FSD now knowing I could get it later at an undetermined amount.
The same can’t be said for LR.
I totally disagree with this. Not that range isn't important, but to take this to an extreme, would a car with 1,000 mile range that cost $50,000 more be worth it.
As someone who has had an 88 mile Leaf, currently has a 150 mile Leaf and a LR Model 3 and no ICE, I've got a perspective that many don't.
88 miles is quite sufficient in many situations. I drove it for years to many locations and it worked quite well, even in the Winter. It would travel all over town, but it was limited to being a "commute vehicle"
The I drove the 150 mile Leaf, which my wife drives today. It works around town without any need to stop and charger, it can even travel long distances, but especially in winter, when the range starts dropping to about 100 miles, it's just not great for longer trips.
240 mile range gets you over the barrier of trips to essentially all locations. Superchargers are generally located at distances that the car has no issues going from one to the next. You can go from coast to coast in the car.
Why would I have a LR? First reason is that the SR+ didn't exist when I got the car. I've had it for a little over a year and probably average 250 miles per week driving it. But I've got 25,000 miles on it. A good portion of that distance is road trips. I've taken many 1,000 mile trips. Took one a few months ago from Atlanta to Cape Canaveral and back in 48 hours, just to see a SpaceX launch. (I travel in airplanes for work, a vacation travelling by air isn't special to me)
So, the decision between SR+ and LR is pretty complicated. Do you take road trips? Do you take many road trips over 200 miles?Are you in an area where Superchargers aren't 100 miles away on Interstates?
A LOT of folks don't take road trips. Many of these folks rarely drive 100 miles away from home. It's a rare few that travel over 300 miles away from home in a car.
So, back to my premise, A LR car that you aren't going to use for LR is less valuable than a SR+ vehicle that may get FSD features
Let's say you buy an LR AWD rated for 310 miles... The overall advice here (and elsewhere) is to charge to 80% or 90% for daily use, unless heading out on a long trip (then go to 100%). Further, the overall advice is to charge up before hitting 20%, in other words, problems can occur if the charge levels fall below 20% (or you might not make it to a SC, etc.). So, actual recommended day-to-day usable range for this 310 mile range LR AWD is about 201 miles (65% of 310, where I used 85% (mid point between 80% and 90% mentioned earlier) as the top day-to-day charge level). And, I should add that in cold weather, the actual day-to-day driving range numbers would be lower than 201 miles. The same general math can be applied to the SR, SR+ etc.
It all depends on what your plans for the vehicle are. If you like road trips, especially in the winter, then a LR probably a better choice. If not, then go for the SR+.
While I know and don't understand with all your points individually as recommendations, they aren't hard and fast.
There are people who Supercharger multiple times a day. I'm sure that there are many people who charge to 100% every day. These are all fully supported by Tesla and no significant detrimental impact to the battery is expected. the "advice" numbers, which are generally overrated, tend to be more along the line of if you don't need it, here's the best thing to do. And remember, essentially NONE of the recommendations come from Tesla, they all come various, often self-appointed experts and from studies that may say things like staying at 100% for a year can cause a few percent degradation.
I'm pretty sure that Elon and Tesla will tell you and support you with the statement "If you need it, use it"
There do seem to probably be some legal terms backing this up, as the cars have to support their claims for, I believe for 10 years
Yep, plus you will likely get less than rated range in real life driving situations. For instance, my recent round trip to Redondo Beach (178 miles total) left me with 23% charge (I started with 85%). So, I consumed 62% of battery, or 192 miles of range, which is 7% more than rated consumption. The built-in nav was spot on on the way there and I was able to do better than predicted on the way back (predicted 21%, arrived with 23%). The same trip with SR+ would require me to either charge to 100% or use a supercharger on the way back.
I'd give up FSD. It's an easy choice, for two reasons: Upgradability and longevity.
First, as several other people have mentioned, you can add FSD back on later, whereas you can't easily upgrade the battery later. The fact that it's just a software change makes it a no-brainer.
Second, the larger the pack, the longer the battery will last before it has to be replaced, and that effect is decidedly nonlinear, because:
For any given number of miles driven, you'll use fewer cycles on each cell in the pack, proportional to the difference in size.
You're more likely to have to use the extreme limits of the pack more often with a smaller pack (higher wear).
Smaller packs have to produce more instantaneous current per cell to achieve the same amount of acceleration (higher wear).
Smaller packs are more likely to need to be supercharged to get you to your destination (higher wear).
Smaller packs are likely to be older designs, and one generally assumes that Tesla is constantly improving the design.
So if I had to choose, I'd definitely pick the longer-range pack over the FSD software upgrade.
Thanks everyone for your input/advice. It looks like long range is the best for me.