Sure - where is all the Billions going to come to expand Tesla Motors production and expand Fukuta manufacturing??
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Fukuta supply role to Tesla
- Thread starter FrozenCanuck
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Gerasimental
Member
That will be Fukuta's problem to deal with. They still have a few years to get to that level. If they don't other suppliers will supply the necessary part. Big deal.
No, when you pick a supplier - you need to make sure they can grow with you. Supplier problems - the motor is a key part of the car - simply swapping out one drive train supplier for another doesn't work. Other drive train/motor manufactures my turn down Tesla Motors because of low profit margin or financial risk.
hockeythug
Active Member
Mods, this has gone on way too long both in the investing section and now here. Please ban this guy.
Glad to see you are living up to our moniker. My guess is you didn't read the research.
Best Regards,
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
1. Currently Tesla may not solely rely on the whole induction motor from Fukuta.
2. Even if they do, Model 3 may not be using the whole induction motor from Fukuta.
3. Even if they do, Fukuta's production capacity has already reached 300k two years ago.
4. Assuming the article is saying the truth and nothing but the truth, there's no casual relationship between Fukuta's 2014 induction motor production capacity and Tesla Model 3 2017 production capacity.
5. Based on the information in this thread, I hypothesis our dear OP didn't pass GRE writing test if he/she ever taken one.
2. Even if they do, Model 3 may not be using the whole induction motor from Fukuta.
3. Even if they do, Fukuta's production capacity has already reached 300k two years ago.
4. Assuming the article is saying the truth and nothing but the truth, there's no casual relationship between Fukuta's 2014 induction motor production capacity and Tesla Model 3 2017 production capacity.
5. Based on the information in this thread, I hypothesis our dear OP didn't pass GRE writing test if he/she ever taken one.
If it was written in March 2016 why it says that Fukuta is planning on delivering 55k motors in 2015.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Do we need another thread on this?
Even if we accept OP's continual claim that Fukuta makes the fully assembled motor for the Tesla Model S (even though evidence from BOL says they only did rotor/stator parts for the Model S; the only motors they shipped to Tesla are large industrial motors), I fail to see how this is a problem.
From the paper, they went from shipping 35k motors (or rather motor parts from the BOL) in 2014 to opening a factory with a 300k annual capacity by the end of 2014. If Tesla needs more motor parts, why can't they just build a new plant?
Even if we accept OP's continual claim that Fukuta makes the fully assembled motor for the Tesla Model S (even though evidence from BOL says they only did rotor/stator parts for the Model S; the only motors they shipped to Tesla are large industrial motors), I fail to see how this is a problem.
From the paper, they went from shipping 35k motors (or rather motor parts from the BOL) in 2014 to opening a factory with a 300k annual capacity by the end of 2014. If Tesla needs more motor parts, why can't they just build a new plant?
William13
Active Member
The bill of lading thread and the old Tesla video showing the American production of the drive motor and the years old assertion/discussion at Tesla that no one made a good enough motor so they had to make it themselves argue against the premise that Fukuta made the entire motor. In fact an alternative read of the OP yellow highlighted sentence can be interpreted that the motors are going elsewhere with Tesla getting "motors" and elsewhere 55,000 motors in 2015 would not be nearly enough due to all the duel motor cars built. Maybe this separate paragraph was about a motor for the compressor.
Regardless of whether or not Fukuta makes the drive motor, it is probably the best motor ever mass produced to date.
Regardless of whether or not Fukuta makes the drive motor, it is probably the best motor ever mass produced to date.
No GRE required in my world - I purchased another 20 contracts for PUTS 2018 ---- you boys have got to stop drinking the Elon water.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
You've got to stop importing your water from Flint.
Interesting paper. Thanks for sharing, Avenger. The most recent biographical reference is an article published in July, 2015, so it was probably written in the fall of 2015.
This part:
If they just add the word "parts" to those two sentences, we're all in agreement.
Given the numbers shown, there's not enough motors for Tesla. In 2014, Tesla introduced the dual motor Model S's. Since Tesla built 35,000 Model S's in 2014 and they built at least a few thousand dual drive P85D's, and Fukuta is the only motor supplier, than the front motor was not supplied by Fukuta if they only delivered 35,000. Thus Tesla must be making some motors, if not all the motors, most with some Fukuta parts. Tesla made 51,000 vehicles in 2015, 55 thousand isn't enough with the dual drive vehicles as a high proportion of the mix. Remember, Tesla also supplied motors for the Mercedes B class electric in 2014 and 2015. The numbers are actually probably in line with the rear drive unit motors which is common across the S60, S70, S85, P85 and the rear drive units on the P85D, P90D, and the RAV 4 EV and Mercedes B class electric. The 70D, 85D, 90D, and the front motors on the P85D and P90D are likely not then supplied by Fukuta if this paper is correct. Remember, motors have to be delivered well in advance, so one should count roughly 1/2 to 1 quarter in advance. Tesla probably shipped somewhere around 45,000 drive unit motors in 2014 and 90,000 drive unit motors in 2015.
I suspect the authors of the paper were a bit loose with the exact facts and was mostly trying to illustrate with close enough information. The exact verbiage with motors versus motor parts probably isn't particularly germane to their paper. The 35,000 figure is a bit too "neat" with Tesla's 2014 vehicle production number, similarly the 55,000 figure for 2015 aligns too much with the original expectations for the year.
This part:
If they just add the word "parts" to those two sentences, we're all in agreement.
Given the numbers shown, there's not enough motors for Tesla. In 2014, Tesla introduced the dual motor Model S's. Since Tesla built 35,000 Model S's in 2014 and they built at least a few thousand dual drive P85D's, and Fukuta is the only motor supplier, than the front motor was not supplied by Fukuta if they only delivered 35,000. Thus Tesla must be making some motors, if not all the motors, most with some Fukuta parts. Tesla made 51,000 vehicles in 2015, 55 thousand isn't enough with the dual drive vehicles as a high proportion of the mix. Remember, Tesla also supplied motors for the Mercedes B class electric in 2014 and 2015. The numbers are actually probably in line with the rear drive unit motors which is common across the S60, S70, S85, P85 and the rear drive units on the P85D, P90D, and the RAV 4 EV and Mercedes B class electric. The 70D, 85D, 90D, and the front motors on the P85D and P90D are likely not then supplied by Fukuta if this paper is correct. Remember, motors have to be delivered well in advance, so one should count roughly 1/2 to 1 quarter in advance. Tesla probably shipped somewhere around 45,000 drive unit motors in 2014 and 90,000 drive unit motors in 2015.
I suspect the authors of the paper were a bit loose with the exact facts and was mostly trying to illustrate with close enough information. The exact verbiage with motors versus motor parts probably isn't particularly germane to their paper. The 35,000 figure is a bit too "neat" with Tesla's 2014 vehicle production number, similarly the 55,000 figure for 2015 aligns too much with the original expectations for the year.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
This is the same thing that was already addressed in another thread. A Model S motor does not weigh 2566 kg. You have never posted a recent BOL that shows a Fukuta shipping AC Induction Servo motors with weigh and unit count that can plausibly be a Model S motor shipment.
On the other hand, there have been plenty of BOLs posted showing Fukuta is shipping motor parts (rotors and stators) to Tesla.
Here's one link that shows 600 motors parts shipped to Tesla, each weighing 16.4kg (too light to be a full motor).
Fukuta Electric & Machinery Co., Ltd., 2 1 Lane 301 Feng Chou Rd Shan Kang District Taichung City Taiwan | Supplier Report — Panjiva
Why would Fukuta be shipping motor parts to Tesla if they are supplying only assembled motors and Tesla is doing no motor assembly themselves?
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That is completely false. The TRANSMISSION was the issue, not the motor, and Fukuta had absolutely nothing to do with any of that. You're undermining your own silly argument by posting easily disproved falsehoods.
William13
Active Member
I don't understand the language. I did see portions of the motor as expected. These seemed to be packed for shipment. At the end he held a motor that resembled a Tesla front motor.
What was said?.
What was said?.
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