Further discussion and analysis on why the yoke is not good

[Hayseed_MS]

I think most people on this thread feel like they're having some pretty good and important interaction using rationale and science to back their opinions about why a yoke in an automobile is vastly inferior to a 360° steering wheel.

I think your hyperbole and drama in your multiple threads is anything but rationale and scientific. Captializing a sentence in your other posts does not make it a fact - it is still just your personal opinion shouted as fact. This has nothing to do with my agreement or disagreemnt with the yoke but you are becoming very trollish.

That's why we got to put the word out to people YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND TO BUY A MODEL S WITHOUT A STEERING WHEEL! Maybe that will decrease demand a little bit to the point where Tesla gets the picture. Probably won't hurt either that Elon's probably going to lose billions of dollars with his Twitter fiasco so maybe he'll be forced into doing what he should have done all along, providing people with solutions not problems.

Yes but here's the problem with yoke. IT MAKES AUTOPILOT HARDER TO USE! Why is this? Because it's harder to drive it manually. If it's harder to drive it manually it's harder to monitor and take over when you're using autopilot. I actually enjoy using autopilot a lot more in my model 3 with a steering wheel than I did in my model S with a yoke. I feel like I've got good takeover capabilities with the steering wheel with my right hand in my lap at the 4:00 position with a rock solid grip on the wheel. With the yoke it was a joke. Put your hand on the side or on the bottom and neither one gives you much of a grip or reaction time when you need to take control

For now at least until it becomes common knowledge that THE YOKE IS A JOKE! I don't think it will take too long.

 

[Plaid to Mod 3]

I think your hyperbole and drama in your multiple threads is anything but rationale and scientific. Captializing a sentence in your other posts does not make it a fact - it is still just your personal opinion shouted as fact. This has nothing to do with my agreement or disagreemnt with the yoke but you are becoming very trollish.

If you read my original post I included a lot of science, a lot of geometry, a lot of ergonomical information and so on. There are a lot of people that seem to be yoke enthusiasts that offer nearly zero rationale from a scientific or otherwise perspective and just say that they really like it.

 

[DayTrippin]

Yoke vs yolk vs wheel is not all that is cracked up to be. It has turned into religious dogma. This is the refreshed's S equivalent of a "motor oil thread".

I know their are true believers of the yoke and all the blessings it provides. It is mana from Elon infused in the yoke and bestowed upon his humble acolytes who worship at the altar of the exalted yoke.

The flip side is all the luddites who are so ignorant they couldn't possible fathom the wonders we receive when we finally accept, and bow down to the obviously superior tool to guide our vehicles into the FSD ecosystem. If it is good enough for a GD (gosh darn) airplane, then obviously it is superior to any concoction that came before it on a lowly 2 dimensional car. If you can control pitch and roll on and aircraft, then hell yes, it is the ideal control for yaw as well. Never mind if you need to spin something in a circular manner than isn't circular. We immediately need to retrofit square wheels on all cars because an oblong, rectangular yoke has shown us it is the ideal thing to turn and spin.

Blessed is Elon who has shown us the light and the error in our ways. I hereby renounce my affinity for the wheel and henceforth will worship the yoke in the manner intended for us by our Lord Elon, the high priest of Tesla. How dare the rest of. you unenlightened heathens who question what our Almighty Lord has given us. All you heretics must be cast of Teslaland unless you do your penance and renounce the wheel. Never mind it is on the 3/Y though...

That is typically how these threads go now if I were to write a parody of them. For me personally, if there wasn't a viable wheel option, I would have sold my S. As it was, my 3 showed up at almost the same time as my S and I spent most of my time driving the 3 as I hated the yoke so much. It was a hazard in a lot of conditions I drove in because of the lack of stalks. I still hate the gear change mechanism likely more than I hated the yoke.

If you like the yoke great. If you don't look at the numerous wheel options out there. If you want a pretty much round wheel (unlike the TSportline one) then go for the Hansshow. Or wait until Tesla puts a wheel back on the S if you haven't bought an S yet.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Yoke vs yolk vs wheel is not all that is cracked up to be. It has turned into religious dogma. This is the refreshed's S equivalent of a "motor oil thread".

I know their are true believers of the yoke and all the blessings it provides. It is mana from Elon infused in the yoke and bestowed upon his humble acolytes who worship at the altar of the exalted yoke.

The flip side is all the luddites who are so ignorant they couldn't possible fathom the wonders we receive when we finally accept, and bow down to the obviously superior tool to guide our vehicles into the FSD ecosystem. If it is good enough for a GD (gosh darn) airplane, then obviously it is superior to any concoction that came before it on a lowly 2 dimensional car. If you can control pitch and roll on and aircraft, then hell yes, it is the ideal control for yaw as well. Never mind if you need to spin something in a circular manner than isn't circular. We immediately need to retrofit square wheels on all cars because an oblong, rectangular yoke has shown us it is the ideal thing to turn and spin.

Blessed is Elon who has shown us the light and the error in our ways. I hereby renounce my affinity for the wheel and henceforth will worship the yoke in the manner intended for us by our Lord Elon, the high priest of Tesla. How dare the rest of. you unenlightened heathens who question what our Almighty Lord has given us. All you heretics must be cast of Teslaland unless you do your penance and renounce the wheel. Never mind it is on the 3/Y though...

That is typically how these threads go now if I were to write a parody of them. For me personally, if there wasn't a viable wheel option, I would have sold my S. As it was, my 3 showed up at almost the same time as my S and I spent most of my time driving the 3 as I hated the yoke so much. It was a hazard in a lot of conditions I drove in because of the lack of stalks. I still hate the gear change mechanism likely more than I hated the yoke.

If you like the yoke great. If you don't look at the numerous wheel options out there. If you want a pretty much round wheel (unlike the TSportline one) then go for the Hansshow. Or wait until Tesla puts a wheel back on the S if you haven't bought an S yet.

I think it is more troglodyte than luddite...

 

[DayTrippin]

I think it is more troglodyte than luddite...

As I expected from a drinker of the Kool-Aid. What is your favorite flavor; FSD, robotaxi, "within specs" or yoke?

 

[Hayseed_MS]

As I expected from a drinker of the Kool-Aid. What is your favorite flavor; FSD, robotaxi, "within specs" or yoke?

Nope - "two weeks".

 

[roblab]

My decision has been made. I wrote this in case it can help anybody else that is willing to use their mind and listen.

Your decision is your decision, not mine, and I have never followed someone else's advice just based on that. If you don't like it, or can't possibly adapt to a non-round wheel, I understand your frustration, but some of us ARE able to adapt. Personally, I like it.

 

[2putt4]

Love or hate the yoke, that's your personal preference and there are aftermarket options you can purchase to fix that. Should Tesla have just shipped it with a steering wheel? Maybe, but I don't think complaining is going to change Elon's mind. I don't mind it, I have gotten used to it, and I don't even think about it anymore. I can make the same maneuvers compared to a regular wheel and through muscle memory can easily operate the capacitive buttons just fine. If there is one feedback, I would bring back the turn signal stalk. I have to make a quick left turn at the light and then in less than 60 yards make an immediate right to get into my condo garage. In the middle of a left turn, there is no way for me to flip the signal quickly or even know where the turn signal buttons are on my wheel. I've lost all reference points and I don't give the person behind me time to know which direction I'm going. All they care about is making the light and will be on my ass throughout the turn. I've adjusted by going around the block and having two right turns instead of a left and then right. All because of the position of the turn signals. If they simply put right on the right and left on the left. Yes it sucks, but it's not the end of the world and this won't be my last car. I hope that in the future they iterate their design and make it better.

 

[Plaid to Mod 3]

Your decision is your decision, not mine, and I have never followed someone else's advice just based on that. If you don't like it, or can't possibly adapt to a non-round wheel, I understand your frustration, but some of us ARE able to adapt. Personally, I like it.

I thought I loved it for 5 months and told everybody I knew that it was the greatest thing ever. I think it's really easy to convince yourself you like the yoke because you just spent over $100,000 on it and it doesn't seem to blow up right in your face immediately so you are overcome with joy. I think that this joy will likely wear off as you experience the yoke and all of its inadequacies in different scenarios over thousands of hours of driving. I think the honeymoon period will end for most people.

 

[Plaid to Mod 3]

Love or hate the yoke, that's your personal preference and there are aftermarket options you can purchase to fix that. Should Tesla have just shipped it with a steering wheel? Maybe, but I don't think complaining is going to change Elon's mind. I don't mind it, I have gotten used to it, and I don't even think about it anymore. I can make the same maneuvers compared to a regular wheel and through muscle memory can easily operate the capacitive buttons just fine. If there is one feedback, I would bring back the turn signal stalk. I have to make a quick left turn at the light and then in less than 60 yards make an immediate right to get into my condo garage. In the middle of a left turn, there is no way for me to flip the signal quickly or even know where the turn signal buttons are on my wheel. I've lost all reference points and I don't give the person behind me time to know which direction I'm going. All they care about is making the light and will be on my ass throughout the turn. I've adjusted by going around the block and having two right turns instead of a left and then right. All because of the position of the turn signals. If they simply put right on the right and left on the left. Yes it sucks, but it's not the end of the world and this won't be my last car. I hope that in the future they iterate their design and make it better.

Yeah this is the kind of sad stuff that I cannot tolerate. Too many other electric options going to be coming online soon and I downgraded to the model 3 which I generally like a lot better because it operates more like a car with the wheel. There are many things I prefer about the model such as the ventilated seats, the ride and so on but I vastly prefer the model 3 overall for the driving experience that the steering wheel offers

 

[TigerNinety]

OK, I’ve searched: is there a thread on the functional advantages of the yoke? (This is not “I like the way it looks” or things like that, rather how or why it functions better as a control for the car, enables better control of the car?)

Thanks.

 

[DayTrippin]

OK, I’ve searched: is there a thread on the functional advantages of the yoke? (This is not “I like the way it looks” or things like that, rather how or why it functions better as a control for the car, enables better control of the car?)

Thanks.

Besides it looks cool? Not really. About the best argument I've seen, from here or anywhere else and not really compelling one as you can do the same thing on the wheel, is it forces your hands into a 9&3 position which reduces risk from the airbag in a collision.

The other oft touted one is better visibility of the dash. Not an issue with how I have the replacement wheel set in my S. When you spin the yoke it does cover up a lot of the dash, more than my wheel does. and the yoke also obscures some of the left side of the screen with how I had it set.

So to recap the objective functional pluses:

• Forces hands to be at 9&3 for less risk from airbag
• Better view of the dash

Things like comfort are subjective. Or better to rest my hands on it.

 

[BogeyGofler22]

Yoke users, how realistic is this video? The amount of jerkiness by the yoke shows how the drawbacks of a yoke (versus a wheel) in those (edge?) case where you want to regain control of the situation.

 

[DayTrippin]

I think what you are seeing is the input of FSD to drive the car. It does nicely show you what sort of an uneven arc the yoke makes when turning past 90 degrees. Here is what I feel Elon gave us if carried to its logical end. I couldn't find the original square wheel bike from when I was at Honda.

They had idea contests and came up with some pretty wild and innovative idea. One was a square wheel bicycle. Here is what I'd guess the modern version would be. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean its better.

 

[TessP100D]

Yoke users, how realistic is this video? The amount of jerkiness by the yoke shows how the drawbacks of a yoke (versus a wheel) in those (edge?) case where you want to regain control of the situation.

Wow. The Yoke is REALLY a joke.
just wow

 

[2putt4]

Please let us know when you crash it.

?? What did I say for you to be this negative? You wish this for Yoke owners? Get a life dude. I wasn’t being a fanboi of the yoke and just saying that it’s been working ok for me with some challenges. People like this should not be part of the community.

 

[ForDesign]

If you read my original post I included a lot of science, a lot of geometry, a lot of ergonomical information and so on. There are a lot of people that seem to be yoke enthusiasts that offer nearly zero rationale from a scientific or otherwise perspective and just say that they really like it.

A lot of your ‘science’ is very option based. I’ll say it again:

The steering wheel has has many incarnations/shapes in various automotive interior design studios I’ve worked in, and none have been produced only due to supplier issues.

Toyota is producing a yoke steering wheel, and so are two other legacy OEMs.

 

[ForDesign]

Actually if you hold the steering wheel properly, there is zero issue with the yoke: (7:00 mark)

The brakes/steering ratio are far more of an problem from a design engineering POV than the steering wheel. (Along IMHO, the placement of steering controls) Maybe auto cross and track folks are holding the wheel wrong? Maybe folks who conduct thousands of hours of economic data juman factor research are incorrect vs your ‘findings?’

(Almost 0% chance of that being the case here.)

 

[LSDTester#1]

Likes/dislikes are very helpful when they are kept factual and personal. It is obviously something the OP could not utilize it and he articulated the reasons for him. That is where he should stop - not questioning the integrity or validity of those of us that do like it.

I have almost 41k miles in 18 states (many trips of 2k miles) and it is one of the best features of the car for me. I was skeptical waiting for the car until June 2021 - almost cancelling it. Since I had one of the first ones, I had no one telling me that I would like or dislike it. I drove it and within the first 5 minutes fell in love with the yoke, I am naturally a 9/3 driver and rest my arms down on the wheel so this was a nothingburger. Roundabouts, 3pt turn into/out of the garage, downtown parallel parking, evasive manuevers, etc. Put one of those epoxy buttons on the horn. No wrecks, curbs, issues., etc..

Cannot say if you will like it or not. Drive it and see. Take my comments and the OP's comments for ramblings of a stranger on the internut and make your own open mind conclusion. If you do not like it, that is fine - move on to another solution. For me it is near perfect.

Same for me. Lucille, my MSLR has 38k miles on her since December 2021 all over the eastern seaboard and it took me all of 5 minutes to love the yoke as well. The people claiming pilot status as some sort of authoritative figure on the matter baffle me. I’m a pilot. He’s a pilot. Wanna know if the guy that just walked in the room is a pilot? He’ll tell you.

The yoke through the Appalachians, 95 corridor, the boring armpit of the country they call Florida, every road I’ve driven on over the last 38,000 miles, the yoke just gets better. These stuck in the past, antiquated thinking posters blow me away. Adaptability wasnt even remotely necessary for this yoke. It was just pure natural, better and more efficient. Yes. Even in stupid roundabouts and hairpin turns. It is pure win.

 

[LSDTester#1]

Yeah I liked it too for the first couple months and told everybody I knew how great it was. Then I took a couple cross-country road trips and realized how inferior it is to a wheel in terms of driver fatigue and control.

Dude, put it on cruise, bring your feet close to the seat, rest your hand on your knees,(they’ll be at the sides of the yoke), and relax. It’s not rocket surgery. There’s better places to rest your arms driving, than laying your hand on top of the steering wheel