First Drive with a Steering Wheel on a Model S

[sleepydoc]

I think the point you are missing is that the yoke is actually in use today, and some people actually like it. Obviously not the majority, which should be no surprise (it is a change, and it requires learning new habits and those things have never been popular with the masses), but given that there are many people who actually paid for getting their wheel replaced with a yoke, there is a market for it.

You can pick any product that is actually being sold, used and loved by a minority and say it is "bad" but seriously, who are you trying to convince? Products that are only loved by a minority are not "bad" products, they are called niche products.

And don't forget that you are driving a Tesla that most ICE car drivers think, even today, is a ridiculous, impractical product (attested by the fact that ICE cars still outsell electric cars 6:1). And they have strong arguments why electric cars are a bad choice and no one should buy one. So you are part of a minority that the majority disagrees with, arguing that within that minority, the majority that you belong to is more right than the minority that prefers a yoke. Oh, the irony

I actually don't get why people feel the need to criticize other people's choices. No one forced me to buy a yoke. I paid for one and I love it, would never go back to a wheel. Can I do that? Is that okay?

Not missing that point at all. Like I said, no matter how bad something is there will be some people that like it. It's simply an argument that it's a poor design. Sure some people can accommodate to it but that doesn't make it a good design.

You're free to like it - I'm not criticizing your preference, just the logic you and some others try to use to say it's better.

 

[zoomer0056]

It's that when you grip the yoke there is not a way to hold it with a diameter line (through the center of rotation) that aligns with your hands.

That means a point rotating about a pivot does not rotate around the center of the circle it creates.

that places them at a position which creates a minimum amount of wheel movement before you need to reposition your hands unlike (say) a "10 to 2

The hand at 4 can stay on the ccw turning yoke before repositioning longer than the hand on a wheel at 2. Is that the metric, movement over time is distance.
You're not aware of the corners on the yoke. They present much better control oportunities than the relatively straight sides of a circle.

it's just potentially dangerous.

Using an argument's conclusion does not support the argument. And most definitely NHTSA does not agree with this conclusion.

However you look at it is fine to me, and this was an interesting exercise. I my yoke.

 

[sleepydoc]

That means a point rotating about a pivot does not rotate around the center of the circle it creates.

This makes zero sense. A point rotating around another point creates a circle. That is the definition of a circle.

 

[zoomer0056]

This makes zero sense. A point rotating around another point creates a circle. That is the definition of a circle.

Thats exactly the point, but that's what drtimhill is saying. Reread what he wrote:

 

[sleepydoc]

Thats exactly the point, but that's what drtimhill is saying. Reread what he wrote:
View attachment 1020617

Yes, he is correct.

 

[evo9rs]

from my own experience, I thought this was well written as pertains to having a yoke on a highly dynamic ground vehicle. road going cars are unlike dedicated race cars, in the sense that dedicated track only cars don't experience a dynamic range from performing 90 degree turns in reverse, to then driving a few hundred miles at a clip while basically going straight.

installing yokes in road going cars is not an innovation that people will eventually "get". it's a gimmick, especially because they have figured that someone who buys a yoke almost certainly never slides the car around on throttle, nor off throttle, nor while trail braking, be it on or off of a track. yokes are a gimmick that actually worsen the dynamic driving experience. I wonder what the author below would have thought about the Plaid, had it just had a steering wheel?

What Happens When The Road Turns​

The Air opens a far bigger gap on the Model S in real-world driving. The Tesla starts at a disadvantage just by virtue of its steering yoke. Originally standard equipment when the Plaid launched, the yoke is now a $1,000 option, which suggests early buyers came to the same conclusion we did. After living with it for three days, we still couldn't reliably execute hand-over-hand parking-lot maneuvers without grabbing a fistful of air.

If you dare to drive the Model S at its limits, the missing upper rim is frankly dangerous. The Plaid oversteers under braking, in corners, and on the throttle, which makes it a handful to hustle around our figure-eight circuit. Experienced drivers will have to unlearn everything they know about driving dynamics and only brake or accelerate with the front wheels pointed dead straight. Anything else provokes a drift and with the yoke there's no guarantee you'll catch every slide.

...

The knife-edged limit handling, the overmatched brakes, and the yoke's alien shape eat at a driver's confidence even at a sane pace on public roads. You end up driving the Plaid into corners at relatively low speeds and letting the 1,050-lb-ft tower of torque yank you out once you've exited the turn.

source: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/...e=braze&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=webpush

 

[zoomer0056]

The knife-edged limit handling, the overmatched brakes, and the yoke's alien shape eat at a driver's confidence even at a sane pace on public roads. You end up driving the Plaid into corners at relatively low speeds and letting the 1,050-lb-ft tower of torque yank you out once you've exited the turn

Nice writing style, pretty dramatic. It matches the influence Tesla is having on the automotive environment ... impressive.

The yoke on my 2022 MSLR is the best steering experience I've ever had. I the yoke.

 

[evo9rs]

Nice writing style, pretty dramatic .

well, they are testing on a track. sliding and drifting a car around, in control, is fun. sliding a car around, and feeling as though you don't have a good means to control the car, is realllly un-fun. one might even say, dramatic

 

[Faksnima]

I have a 23 MSP with the wheel. After over a month with the yoke on a loaner, very glad I got the wheel. My issue is the wheel is far too “loose”. The steering is much looser, despite the mode, when compared to the yoke and my old M3P. Anyone else experience this?

 

[dsm363]

I've driven Muscle cars all my life.
I liked the yoke as soon as I started driving my Plaid with no getting used to it learning curve.
Took to it like a duck to water.
The buttons took a day or so to which I added rubber cabinet stops.

How many Mercedes or BMW drivers complain about their round steering wheel or buy rubber cabinet stops to put on their steering wheel?

 

[dsm363]

The picture I added is not a F1 car, but I hear you. "Feeling awkward" is a subjective, personal reaction, it is about you, not about the thing. Having to speak in public also makes most people feel awkward, but that doesn't mean public speaking is wrong. The reason for these never ending discussions is that this is subjective, and people have different habits and preferences. That doesn't make either preference the "right" one or better than the other. There is no need to convince anyone. The only question that matters is, which one is better for you?

Well, this is something you could measure. Would 100% of people perform better in an emergency situation where fast reflexes required changing directions, honking the horn...etc with the yoke over the round steering wheel? There are people like you who like the yoke better but that doesn't mean it's objectively better. It's not really a subjective thing. The lack of steer by wire and the capacitive buttons were a terrible design decision.

The major problem was Tesla didn't give this niche product an alternative at first. They forced it on everyone and it hurt sales. There's a big reason why the roundish steering wheel (smaller than original one) and center horn made a comeback. And I bet turn signal and gear stalk at some point too once Elon is no longer at Tesla.

I'm glad you like the yoke and once it's steer by wire, most of the issues will go away now that they brought back center horn. But Tesla never should have forced this terrible design on everyone. They should bring back a normal round steering wheel, adjust the UI to match it, and bring back traditional stalks like people have had for decades. Give people options.

 

[Excaliber]

How many Mercedes or BMW drivers complain about their round steering wheel or buy rubber cabinet stops to put on their steering wheel?

Nobody complains about a round steering wheel on cars that come with them.
However people do complain about the buttons on a BMW console like in my M60 EV SUV.
I got the cabinet stops for that and then used a few on the yoke which improved it for me..
Most people are not innovative and smart enough to do anything about things other than complain.
I bought tha Plaid for it's insane acceleration and liked the yoke but would have rather had stalks.
However that was not available nor will Tesla retrofit them from an earlier MS so I took lemons and made lemonade.
To me the cabinet stops are a great and easy improvement.
Now I have no problems hitting the horn or inadvertently hitting the right turn signal while doing next track on my tunes .








I'm a modder and do things to make things better for me.
I've been modding cars all my life.
I just added a front parking camera since my MS with all it's cameras didn't have one like my BMW and even my brother's Buick Encore do.
How many people would do that?

 

[dsm363]

Nobody complains about a round steering wheel on cars that come with them.
However people do complain about the buttons on a BMW console like in my M60 EV SUV.
I got the cabinet stops for that and then used a few on the yoke which improved it for me..
Most people are not innovative and smart enough to do anything about things other than complain.
I bought tha Plaid for it's insane acceleration and liked the yoke but would have rather had stalks.
However that was not available nor will Tesla retrofit them from an earlier MS so I took lemons and made lemonade.
To me the cabinet stops are a great and easy improvement.
Now I have no problems hitting the horn or inadvertently hitting the right turn signal while doing next track on my tunes .








I'm a modder and do things to make things better for me.
I've been modding cars all my life.
I just added a front parking camera since my MS with all it's cameras didn't have one like my BMW and even my brother's Buick Encore do.
How many people would do that?

I also put a sticker so I could find the horn easier. But it was an odd design decision on a $75,000+ car and for something like the horn or turn signal (usually not a focus of a luxury car), Tesla made it such that owners felt the need to mod their car with a 25 cent button.

 

[PR0FESSOR]

While I love my yoke, I think that there is a valid argument to be made that a steering wheel is safer from a couple of perspectives. First, there are more locations to grip a wheel than there are to grip a yoke. Second, the torque placed on a steering wheel to turn the vehicle is completely symmetric while the torque to turn the yoke is asymmetric; the force you apply to turn the vehicle when grabbing the sides of the yoke (vertical edges) is LESS than the torque required to turn the vehicle while grabbing the horizontal (lower) edge of the yoke. In fact, the only location on the yoke where the torque application is the same everywhere you grab it is the vertical edges of the yoke; as soon as you start grabbing the horizontal edge, the torque need to apply the same turning force is different at EVERY location on the bottom edge. The highest torque from the drivers arms is the very center of the lower edge of the wheel because this has the shortest lever arm. The least force required is right at the corners of the lower edge of the yoke because they are furthest away from the rotational axis of the yoke. None of these issues exist on the steering wheel because every point on the steering wheel (assuming it is perfectly circular) is the same no matter where you grab it.

This said, while I firmly believe that the missing 180 degrees of grip on the yoke, and the (mostly) asymmetric torque required to turn the vehicle IS more dangerous than a steering wheel, I love the yoke more. There really is no argument that the yoke is safer, or that the safety of the yoke and the steering wheel are the same, they are not. The steering wheel is safer than the yoke if you have a firm grasp on physics.

The yoke is better for me, and I do not care that it is more dangerous. No matter what anyone says, the choice of a steering wheel is a more logical and safer choice. The choice of the yoke for many, is a nod towards illogical beauty of the yoke…. And everything boils down to personal choice. There really is no right or wrong here. If you value safety; get the wheel. If you think that the yoke is a work of art in the cabin, get the yoke… but please do not argue that there is a “right” or “wrong” choice here; there simply is not.

Joe

 

[itch808]

I have a 23 MSP with the wheel. After over a month with the yoke on a loaner, very glad I got the wheel. My issue is the wheel is far too “loose”. The steering is much looser, despite the mode, when compared to the yoke and my old M3P. Anyone else experience this?

I agree with this. I have a MSP and when I took it in to get some small things addressed, I received a MS LR with the wheel. My impressions of them back to back were:

1) Steering felt oddly "looser" despite the same settings. I know nothing mechanically is different besides the wheel. It's hard to describe.
2) Visibility was obscured, mostly of the dash but a bit of the road/front visibility. The wheel felt like it was too big. The yoke feels like it was designed around the shape of the dash.
3) It just didn't feel right. It seemed strange. I guess this goes back to the soul aspect.

Now how can I get this new yoke with an actual horn button? That's my biggest complaint.

 

[terranx]

Now how can I get this new yoke with an actual horn button? That's my biggest complaint.

They'll probably offer a retrofit in the coming weeks. If you can encourage the faux-leather of your yoke to deteriorate when that retrofit is officially available, odds are you'd get the new one as a replacement

 

[cptnslo]

Here’s the new wheel with the replaced horn button

 

[motorist1]

It had been a while since I checked this forum and see this debate of yoke vs steering wheel is still fully alive and well .

As many had already indicated, it really comes down to a matter of choice. Not all like the same things. However, I had posted a link to a little spinner device that can go on a yoke and essentially addresses the issues with U-turns and excessive rotation so you could have the best of both worlds with a cheap accessory. I have had it on my yoke for about a year, and it's great.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S3XMSY2?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&tag=tmc064-20

 

[bkcyk]

It had been a while since I checked this forum and see this debate of yoke vs steering wheel is still fully alive and well .

As many had already indicated, it really comes down to a matter of choice. Not all like the same things. However, I had posted a link to a little spinner device that can go on a yoke and essentially addresses the issues with U-turns and excessive rotation so you could have the best of both worlds with a cheap accessory. I have had it on my yoke for about a year, and it's great.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S3XMSY2?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&tag=tmc064-20

 

[zoomer0056]

It had been a while since I checked this forum and see this debate of yoke vs steering wheel is still fully alive and well .

For sure this debate is like the tide. It ebbs and flows. The conversation starts, some get very passionate and it can become an argument that explodes and goes away. Then it starts again with a new set of people.