gateway 2 rolling out in US yet?

[miimura]

To be clear, adding a non backup panel and running a feeder cable from gateway to the generation disconnect and taps to the house panels is acceptable by inspectors even though you have the possibility of overloading the gateway?

I may be misunderstanding the question, but the Gateway must be fed by a breaker no larger than 200A. That will protect it from overload. In certain conditions it may be possible to power more than 200A of loads due to adding grid and local generation, but those don't pass through the Gateway switch from the grid, which is where the 200A breaker should be.

A non-backup panel is by definition, not fed by the Gateway. It is fed from your utility meter before the 200A branch that goes to the Gateway. Therefore, energy cannot flow back to a non-backup panel from the batteries and solar while the grid is down. The Gateway switch is a hard demarcation line for what is grid-only and what is backed up.

 

[Janus]

In certain conditions it may be possible to power more than 200A of loads due to adding grid and local generation, but those don't pass through the Gateway switch from the grid, which is where the 200A breaker should be.

I'd imagine that may cause safety issues. Since (presumably) the main panel is rated for 200A, if the bus bars inside that panel started transporting over 200A that may cause them to overheat.

 

[miimura]

I'd imagine that may cause safety issues. Since (presumably) the main panel is rated for 200A, if the bus bars inside that panel started transporting over 200A that may cause them to overheat.

People in this thread are talking about homes that have more than 200A service. While I've never personally seen a panel with a bus rated more than 225A, I'm sure they do exist.

I have 320A service that can support 2 x 200A main breakers. The included bus is only fed by one of the 200A breakers and can only support installed breakers of up to 125A. The additional slot for an additional main breaker must feed a different panel. My gateway is fed by a 125A breaker on the main bus. In order to maximize the backed up loads on my service, the gateway would have to be fed by a new 200A breaker in the empty spot. In my installation it was not necessary because I don't back up any of my large loads. EVSEs are not backed up and the two A/C compressors are not installed even though they were roughed in for electrical and refrigerant piping. If the Gateway was fed by a separate main breaker, the entire main panel would be not backed up and the two main breakers would work independently. In other words, it is possible to feed a Gateway without any bus for installing breakers in between, avoiding any related safety issues.

 

[Patrick66]

True 400A support is probably not coming anytime soon, at best I could see some integration with multiple gateways down the road.

Just install 2 Gateways, one per feed and do your 400A, its not ideal but it works. There are other solutions as well. We just finished a home with a 600A switchboard with most of the "home" backup except the pools. (2) GW 1, (12) PW, (140+) SPR 350-BLK-E-AC

It doesn't make sense for Tesla to make a 400A version right now, as the number people with true 400A services is pretty small, even among 400A services. Most people have a 2x200 where its much cheaper to take one of the other solutions anyway.

If Tesla makes a 400A unit, what about 600A and 800A services then? The best solution is to pick a size like 200A feeds then build blocks of that same design, with intercommunication between them.

The rest of the world wants the Gateway to be 3 phase. The way some american mansions pull 800A 240V split phase is crazy!
If Tesla wants the biggest bang for the investment, the world market is much more interested in a slick 3 phase gateway. On 3 phase, you can deliver much more power, even with 200A maximum.

The complexity of supporting up to 600A, three-phase is limited for the gateway. 800A would not be realistic, and 400A three phase is easiest. You are going to need another two inches of depth for 400A, and maybe four inces extra up to 800A, along with a larger panel width. There are similar products on the market, but with different “smarts”. Maybe Tesla goes the route of isolating the smarts and let OEMs build the panels to make it work.

You couldn’t just parallel two 200A gateways, you would end up with a code violation, along with a very poorly optimized design.

 

[miimura]

You couldn’t just parallel two 200A gateways, you would end up with a code violation, along with a very poorly optimized design.

You can have a parallel installation with two 200A Gateways. The person you replied to is a certified installer who has actually done it. However, it's not actually parallel because they're not interconnected on the load side. A more apt description would be side-by-side. The loads are separated and flow only through the Gateway that they are connected to. Only the grid side of the Gateways are connected together. As stated up-thread, this is a non-ideal situation because the batteries and solar are separated between the two gateways and when the grid fails, one side can run out of energy or get full before the other and there's no way to re-balance it while it's running. However, if you really have more loads that need to be backed up than can be handled by a single 200A gateway, then this is the only available solution today.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

Tesla did a loads calculation and one 200A gateway will be sufficient. Load calcs only look at 240V loads. Largest draw i've ever recorded was 100A.
If i follow the discussion correctly, my two 200A panels on a 320A service doesn't meet code as i could draw 400A and cause the meter bus bars to overheat.

I may be misunderstanding the question, but the Gateway must be fed by a breaker no larger than 200A. That will protect it from overload. In certain conditions it may be possible to power more than 200A of loads due to adding grid and local generation, but those don't pass through the Gateway switch from the grid, which is where the 200A breaker should be.

correct, just like every plug in my house, i could plug in two 1200w heaters into one outlet and pop a breaker...

I'm not sure about this, but i could wire every outlet in my house to a individual 15A breaker which would not mean i need 750A service (100 outlets * 15A / 2 (half on each phase).

 

[miimura]

Tesla did a loads calculation and one 200A gateway will be sufficient. Load calcs only look at 240V loads. Largest draw i've ever recorded was 100A.
If i follow the discussion correctly, my two 200A panels on a 320A service doesn't meet code as i could draw 400A and cause the meter bus bars to overheat.



correct, just like every plug in my house, i could plug in two 1200w heaters into one outlet and pop a breaker...

I'm not sure about this, but i could wire every outlet in my house to a individual 15A breaker which would not mean i need 750A service (100 outlets * 15A / 2 (half on each phase).

It is perfectly normal to have 400A of breakers on a 320A service. It is almost impossible to fully load the service for more than a couple minutes at a time. Any continuous load must use a breaker 125% of the continuous load, which is the same ratio as 320A to 400A.

 

[Vines]

Check out 220.83 (a) or (b) for how to calculate your service when adding new loads. Its the easiest among the load calculations to pass, if your AHJ allows. Both 120v outlets and larger loads are taken into account. As pointed out above, service equipment is rated differently than the rest of your electrical distribution equipment. PGE service conductors are rated differently as well.

As long as you don't pass more than 200A through the gateway, or through its lugs from forked panels you can install 10 Powerwalls and 200A of PV on a single 200A gateway, assuming the service passes the impedance check.

Our first beta install GW2 just arrived, exciting day today! Its already saved a service upgrade.

 

[MJFox3]

@Vines - it looked like the GW2 can have both a non-backup circuit as well as a load and generation circuit (3 total), with one of those potentially being inside the GW2 itself, right? That would save one extra box (either backup loads or generation panel).

If so, this would greatly simplify our upcoming installation and decrease the # of wire runs. Only issue would be site metering, as we have split 200A service, and the GW2 can only backup one of those. We would need to either relocate meter and get 2nd one for PV monitoring, or 2nd meter for site monitoring.

Check out 220.83 (a) or (b) for how to calculate your service when adding new loads. Its the easiest among the load calculations to pass, if your AHJ allows. Both 120v outlets and larger loads are taken into account. As pointed out above, service equipment is rated differently than the rest of your electrical distribution equipment. PGE service conductors are rated differently as well.

As long as you don't pass more than 200A through the gateway, or through its lugs from forked panels you can install 10 Powerwalls and 200A of PV on a single 200A gateway, assuming the service passes the impedance check.

Our first beta install GW2 just arrived, exciting day today! Its already saved a service upgrade.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

i found this loads calculation sheet on line which uses NEC 220.83 Section B. I don't believe i would be necessary to add both the AC and Heat, if heat is resistive only; as only one can run at a time. perhaps heat pump would be different.

...

Our first beta install GW2 just arrived, exciting day today! Its already saved a service upgrade.

pics please by beta install you mean the first install your local team has done.

 

[Vines]

@Vines - it looked like the GW2 can have both a non-backup circuit as well as a load and generation circuit (3 total), with one of those potentially being inside the GW2 itself, right? That would save one extra box (either backup loads or generation panel).

If so, this would greatly simplify our upcoming installation and decrease the # of wire runs. Only issue would be site metering, as we have split 200A service, and the GW2 can only backup one of those. We would need to either relocate meter and get 2nd one for PV monitoring, or 2nd meter for site monitoring.

The gateway 2 indeed has one additional set of lugs for 100A max metered, non backed up loads, fed from the line side of the gateway. It also has an optional 6 slot, 200A internal panel board (though our Beta unit unfortunately didn't come with)

GW2 meters do not relocate, instead meters are added only. If you wish to self consume non backed up loads that remain in the MSP, you need to add a meter there, and make sure your total back feed does not exceed 200A.

Will be very interesting to see if the AHJ allow the new conductor limits option to break 120% rules, or not (or if they even notice). It can now be done safely through software....as long as the software doesn't fail lol. Tesla is apparently working on some documentation we might give to the AHJ to explain this. Will be very cool to safely Install a big PV+PW system on a service we would have to otherwise upgrade.

i found this loads calculation sheet on line which uses NEC 220.83 Section B. I don't believe i would be necessary to add both the AC and Heat, if heat is resistive only; as only one can run at a time. perhaps heat pump would be different.

pics please by beta install you mean the first install your local team has done.

Will be on our website, but that'll be a bit until marketing makes it happen. First we need to finish the install. I'm just a worker bee, I don't represent who I work for here. They aren't shipping to us yet so we aren't getting loud about it yet.

 

[MJFox3]

The gateway 2 indeed has one additional set of lugs for 100A max metered, non backed up loads, fed from the line side of the gateway. It also has an optional 6 slot, 200A internal panel board (though our Beta unit unfortunately didn't come with)

GW2 meters do not relocate, instead meters are added only. If you wish to self consume non backed up loads that remain in the MSP, you need to add a meter there, and make sure your total back feed does not exceed 200A.

Will be very interesting to see if the AHJ allow the new conductor limits option to break 120% rules, or not (or if they even notice). It can now be done safely through software....as long as the software doesn't fail lol. Tesla is apparently working on some documentation we might give to the AHJ to explain this. Will be very cool to safely Install a big PV+PW system on a service we would have to otherwise upgrade.



Will be on our website, but that'll be a bit until marketing makes it happen. First we need to finish the install. I'm just a worker bee, I don't represent who I work for here. They aren't shipping to us yet so we aren't getting loud about it yet.

Thank you - that sounds like it will fit quite nicely in our setup. We would just add an additional meter at the MSP, so we can monitor load on the 2nd 200A service that is not backed up, to more accurately monitor house loads and self consume for those loads, if desired. Backfeed will be less than 200A so we should be all good on that.

Does it still use Neurios if additional meters are added?

 

[SMAlset]

....Our first beta install GW2 just arrived, exciting day today! Its already saved a service upgrade.

seriously, the new GW2?!! That’s great to hear. Might be thanking Santa Clara County’s delayed reopening for this work if it means Tesla comes out with the smaller sized (and more aesthetically pleasing) Gateway 2.

any photos of your install? Hey, glad to see you are back in business again.

 

[Vines]

Thank you - that sounds like it will fit quite nicely in our setup. We would just add an additional meter at the MSP, so we can monitor load on the 2nd 200A service that is not backed up, to more accurately monitor house loads and self consume for those loads, if desired. Backfeed will be less than 200A so we should be all good on that.

Does it still use Neurios if additional meters are added?

The compatibility with Neurio Meters remains, also new Tesla Meters are available.

seriously, the new GW2?!! That’s great to hear. Might be thanking Santa Clara County’s delayed reopening for this work if it means Tesla comes out with the smaller sized (and more aesthetically pleasing) Gateway 2.

any photos of your install? Hey, glad to see you are back in business again.

GW2 isn't smaller than GW1. Its deeper, wider, but not quite as tall. Tempered Glass face is nice looking as well.

Not sure if there's GW2 stock anywhere in the US, but if there is it would be with Tesla Energy. Yes its great to be back thanks. Unfortunately its time to play catch up for at least another month.

 

[SMAlset]

So I was reading a few articles on PV-Magazine and saw an article to click on that said "Tesla's Backup Gateway 2 Has Landed in the U.S." it was dated June 5, but when I clicked on the article link I got this instead:

"Not Found
You tried going to https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2020/06/05/teslas-backup-gateway-2-has-landed-in-the-us/, and it doesn't exist. Try searching for what you're looking for."

Guessing Tesla is still keeping it underwraps and likely someone made them take it down.

 

[JeremyWhaling]

If you google "teslas-backup-gateway-2-has-landed-in-the-us" and pull up a cashed version of the article, you can read it in full.

Nothing new, but confirms what has been discussed in this thread!

 

[SMAlset]

In doing a google search this was listed in another Solar publication:

Tesla's Backup Gateway 2 has actually landed in US

 

[Vines]

There are certainly delays with the GW2, and Tesla likely looking to avoid an Osbourne situation.

We are hoping to get any in stock by the end of July.

 

[gigawatt1010]

There are certainly delays with the GW2, and Tesla likely looking to avoid an Osbourne situation.

We are hoping to get any in stock by the end of July.

Curious what the Osbourne situation is/was? I'm in the permitting stage of my Solar Glass order that I placed on May 2nd. I was told by a tesla advisor that my solar glass should be installed around mid-July. I'm hoping that the GW2 is what comes with their installs by then, although in my paperwork they sent me in May, it clearly states GW1.

I also noticed most the articles are in Australia, is that where Tesla beta test their energy products?

 

[Vines]

Look up Osbourne. Osborne effect - Wikipedia

Its the effect where a customer cancels or refuses to take the order of a current generation product because of desire to get the mnewest generation instead.

In its extreme, it can really cause issues with a new product. If your plans and permit and everything is GW1, then its what you signed up for, and changes are going to cost someone money.