Gen 3 wall connectors: 2 on same circuit?

[Rocky_H]

Sorry, I'm just saying that the Tesla PDF manual (not website) seems to just be written without the option that would pass code if written today.

How so? I haven't seen anything specific that you are saying that would not meet code.

Right, it is an option. Having the option should allow for installations with the larger same sized wiring without breakers objectively when looking at the latest code. But it isn't as we know...

Right--that gets down to the manufacturer's instructions. If they hadn't said to install it using individual breakers for each, then same wire and same settings and Polaris connectors would have been an acceptable way.

To just play with this a bit, the website page

What website page? Can you post a link to what you're referring to? You mean that power sharing overview page? That has a description of the function but is not the installation instructions with diagrams like the manual gives, which would be the specific guidance incorporated by the NEC catch-all that says to follow the manufacturer's installation instructions.

which is newer than the manual is being interpreted by both Tesla employees part of their installer network support and installers as being the latest guidance and that separate breakers are not necessary.

The manual shows specifically that they are. I've never seen anything that says other than that.

so right now it is the interpretation (without clear diagrams, etc) that is debatable I suppose.

The manual DOES have clear diagrams.

 

[brkaus]

The manual DOES have clear diagrams.

Right. But there are no clear diagrams of what people want it to say or think it should say.

 

[Rocky_H]

Right. But there are no clear diagrams of what people want it to say or think it should say.

Yeah, I'm kind of picking up on that. It seems there are people thinking they know how they would want to do it, and many people doing it that way because they haven't looked at where the answer actually is, and so claiming that there is "confusion".

 

[rwojo]

I think we all agree that it is not in code today due to §110.3(B).

On the confusion topic, let's just say that I'm not the only one confused why Tesla has this restriction today. So is their in-house installer network staff and their own installer network. I guess it's good to have company.

 

[Rocky_H]

I think we all agree that it is not in code today due to §110.3(B).

Sorry, but what do you mean by "it", since I'm supposedly agreeing to it? There have been a lot of things discussed here.

 

[rwojo]

Sorry, but what do you mean by "it", since I'm supposedly agreeing to it? There have been a lot of things discussed here.

Sorry. Installing without separate breakers. Today you must install the Gen3 with separate breakers per the installation manual.

 

[jeffnhelen]

The web page is confusing as it says things like "Note: In the event that your leader and followers have different circuit breakers" implying that they can have the same circuit breaker, although maybe they are thinking the upstream that feeds the subpanel. *shrug*

I don't think it's trying to imply that they can be on the same circuit, I just think they did a poor execution in stating a case where they might be on different SIZED breakers (i.e. one on a 60A and another on a 40A) since this is describing how one would need to go into each HPWC and set the max amperage based on their individual breaker sizes.

EMS is an amazing advancement, but based on the costs of small panels and standard OCPD breakers not being much more than the set of Polaris connectors, here are my thoughts on why a sub-panel wins in most cases:
- the ability to ensure you are strictly meeting code (installing per the manufacturers guidelines)
- providing flexibility to easily add more circuits/chargers
- perform maintenance or disable single chargers without having to shut off the rest of the circuit
- potentially limiting those non-EMS/non-fixed in place chargers with an appropriately sized breaker within your "EV charging" sub-panel

On that last point, EMS, to my knowledge, is not close to being a standard -- so you would most likely have to stick with the same manufacturer to utilize the communication technology. Also, NEC requires the EVSEs to be fixed-in-place/hard-wired to safely utilize the EMS functionality, so no plug-in style chargers at this time; sans possibly limiting the chargers with a separate breaker and subtracting that potential draw from the other chargers "shared" load.

 

[jeffnhelen]

I retract my previous statement about the fixed-in-place requirement as I was looking at the 2020 Code and not 2023. Not sure I agree with that as potentially anything with say a 14-50 plug can be connected to the circuit and not abide by the EMS shared load maximums, but code is constantly evolving as we make non-intelligent decisions

625.42 Rating.

 

[GateFather]

Wanted to revive this thread to ask a related question. Today I installed a second Tesla Wall connector for my new 2023 Model Y. New one is Gen3. My original Wall connector for my Model 3 is a Gen2 connector. Each of these is connected to its own 60 amp breaker in a subpanel, that is connected to a 100amp breaker of the main panel of the house. This means that 80amps should be the total combined draw at the subpanel, to make up 80% of 100amp breaker. For now, I just set both cars to 40amps charging and that's that. But it would be nice to have the more advanced functionality of linking 2 Gen3 chargers together wirelessly.

Is it possible, if I replace the Gen2 with a Gen3, to have them linked wirelessly and have them never exceed 80 combined amps but manage which car gets how many amps based on SoC when plugged in?

 

[miimura]

Wanted to revive this thread to ask a related question. Today I installed a second Tesla Wall connector for my new 2023 Model Y. New one is Gen3. My original Wall connector for my Model 3 is a Gen2 connector. Each of these is connected to its own 60 amp breaker in a subpanel, that is connected to a 100amp breaker of the main panel of the house. This means that 80amps should be the total combined draw at the subpanel, to make up 80% of 100amp breaker. For now, I just set both cars to 40amps charging and that's that. But it would be nice to have the more advanced functionality of linking 2 Gen3 chargers together wirelessly.

Is it possible, if I replace the Gen2 with a Gen3, to have them linked wirelessly and have them never exceed 80 combined amps but manage which car gets how many amps based on SoC when plugged in?

Yes. Two Gen3 can be configured to 48 max each and 80 amp total simultaneous draw. It does not care about how much each car needs, it splits equally last I heard. However, rumor has it that more smart features will be released "soon" for Gen3 Wall Connectors (both Tesla and Universal) that could address your desire for unequal split among power shared Wall Connectors.

 

[GateFather]

Yes. Two Gen3 can be configured to 48 max each and 80 amp total simultaneous draw. It does not care about how much each car needs, it splits equally last I heard. However, rumor has it that more smart features will be released "soon" for Gen3 Wall Connectors (both Tesla and Universal) that could address your desire for unequal split among power shared Wall Connectors.

Oh so for now they wouldn’t be 40amp total all the time then anyways? So no point in getting another gen3 yet?

 

[miimura]

Oh so for now they wouldn’t be 40amp total all the time then anyways? So no point in getting another gen3 yet?

Like I said, if you only plug in one car, it can get 48A. As long as the second car is plugged in, it will reserve 6A. In your situation, that doesn't matter because 48A+6A < 80A. If both cars are actively charging, they will each get 40A.

As a practical matter, I would not change anything if I were in your situation. The difference between 40A and 48A is not a big deal. I can fully charge our LR Model 3 overnight using the 32A max Mobile Connector on a 14-50 outlet.

 

[GateFather]

Like I said, if you only plug in one car, it can get 48A. As long as the second car is plugged in, it will reserve 6A. In your situation, that doesn't matter because 48A+6A < 80A. If both cars are actively charging, they will each get 40A.

As a practical matter, I would not change anything if I were in your situation. The difference between 40A and 48A is not a big deal. I can fully charge our LR Model 3 overnight using the 32A max Mobile Connector on a 14-50 outlet.

Yeah you’re probably right. Just leave them at 40amp max each and not think about it again. Unless Tesla releases some type of smart charging capability. I always thought that they already do this. Could have sworn I read back in 2018-2019 that the gen2 connected together will provide more amps to car with lower SoC until they are balanced then charge same from there. Do gen2 hardwired together to this and just gen 3 do not?

 

[davewill]

Wanted to revive this thread to ask a related question. Today I installed a second Tesla Wall connector for my new 2023 Model Y. New one is Gen3. My original Wall connector for my Model 3 is a Gen2 connector. Each of these is connected to its own 60 amp breaker in a subpanel, that is connected to a 100amp breaker of the main panel of the house. This means that 80amps should be the total combined draw at the subpanel, to make up 80% of 100amp breaker. For now, I just set both cars to 40amps charging and that's that. But it would be nice to have the more advanced functionality of linking 2 Gen3 chargers together wirelessly.

Is it possible, if I replace the Gen2 with a Gen3, to have them linked wirelessly and have them never exceed 80 combined amps but manage which car gets how many amps based on SoC when plugged in?

The Gen3 power sharing won't prioritize one car over the other, but you might be able to manually set one car to 32a, which could allow the other to use a full 48a. I don't know for a fact that it would work, and I also agree that simply setting the two wall connectors you already own to 40a charging is likely a more than adequate solution. You could also consider setting one to 48a and one to 32a, and plugging whichever car needs priority into the faster one.

 

[brkaus]

I have read it is split evenly. If you manually reduce one car the other will pickup the spare.

I have no idea what would be “correct” if splitting by SOC. Let the full one finish quickly so it could be moved/used? Or let the empty one catch up so the both finish at the same time?

I feel like even split is the most straightforward.