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They are. From the Volkswagen annual report (copy paste is disabled on the PDF I have so all typos here are mine)
For those who hold their nose because 'it's not investement it's just purchase agreements'
And if you think Volkswagen is not involved in R&D or not interested in intellectual property on battery development
It's clear the Volkswagen group is going ahead with EVs, it's a serious player and is commiting serious resources. I am not taking Tesla's lead in battery a few years from now for granted anymore.
Works if you can log in to FB. Cool!Actually the Semi was first spotted at Anheuser Busch.
Lets see if this link works...
Log into Facebook | Facebook
You think the Fremont plant would have been ready for the increased volume that Grohmann will provide (without the shut down)?We can nip that speculation right in the bud. The downtime was in Fremont, the Grohmann line is destined for the Gigafactory. So that's a hard no. Given that inside EV had this scoop 2 weeks ago I am inclined to believe them. As an automation engineer myself, I find it very plausible that as the assembly line was dealing with higher volume on a more regular basis that they discovered timing issue that needed rectifying in such a way that they had to shut down production for a while. That's good news, btw. It means one more bottleneck was solved. It's by far not going to be the last one though but increasing production like this is very often an iterative process.
You think the Fremont plant would have been ready for the increased volume that Grohmann will provide (without the shut down)?
Not saying that was the reason, just speculating. I do indeed hope they are ready at Fremont, I have no idea.
That's funny. Of all the time I spend on this board I remember the arguments as "traditional manufacturers are going to need to spend Billions to get supply and it going to take them years to get it." Pretty much the VW investment says exactly this, and it is something they should have done years ago.
You guys really think that Samsung and LG don't know what they're doing? The battery system that Tesla installed in Austrailia used a lot of Samsung batteries. Samsung makes half the stuff that Apple uses in its iphone. They lead the world in solid state memory. Their industrial capabilities are second to none. The assumption that somehow VW and the other German carmakers have to make their own batteries in order to compete is based on what? Tesla's paradigm of doing it all themselves? Apple does 'okay,' and they contract almost everything out.This! I agree with Avoigt, and strongly disagree with recent posts equating Tesla’s Panasonic relationship with VW’s relationship to its newly contracted battery suppliers.
Battery tech is a core competency for Tesla (it is NOT so for VW).
Tesla has focused on battery manufacture, battery chemistry, battery thermal management, etc since its early days. Members in this forum have posted links to videos in which university experts in battery chemistry partnered with Tesla in refining the cells that Tesla has chosen to create with Panasonic, and which Panasonic manufactures to Tesla’s specs.
One such video:
By some eastimates, Tesla may itself be a world leader in battery technology (if not THE world leader in lithium ion battery tech).
Andrea James, the former Wall Street Anslyst, referred to JB Straubel as ‘the world’s leading battery expert’ (approximate quote) in this interview with Dave T:
The following quote illustrates that Tesla is NOT, as some have posited on this thread today ‘just a purchaser of Panasonic cells’:
“The high performance cylindrical ‘2170 cell’ was jointly designed and engineered by Tesla and Panasonic to offer the best performance at the lowest production cost in an optimal form factor for both electric vehicles and energy products.” Battery Cell Production Begins at the Gigafactory
It would be a major error to underestimate Tesla’s involvement in the design of its battery technology. Tesla may be leading a disruption in battery technology (in partnership with Panasonic) just as Tesla may be leading a disruption of automobile manufacturing through its design of automation (in conjunction with its internal expertise at Grohmann and Perbix).
So how does all this affect your investment strategy?
My friend in the SF Bay Area received his invite today. He was a first-day reservation non-owner. They told him 3-6 weeks for delivery.New invites reported today, CA, line-waiter, I assume non-owner, since owners are all already taken care of, right?
After investigating a bit more, I have to conclude the differences aren't as big as I thought. But there are some differences:How? The cell fabrication process is proprietary to Panasonic and off limits for Tesla employees. It's a supply contract for output from a co-located factory. Tesla participates in securing raw materials (see his recent visit to Chili). Volkswagen is too. Tesla is participating in research & development, Volkwagen is too (notably to reduce Cobalt content) I fail to see the dramatic difference. There is just one : Tesla does pack assembly themselves, Volkswagen is outsourcing that as well. Given how well pack assembly is going, I am not sure there are huge rewards to reap there.
Those are just current purchase and supply agreements. As noted before, Tesla's entire supply contract and purchase obligations with Panasonic is for -at most- $17B. No one is seriously suggesting that this will somehow constrain Tesla to just 2 million cars total by 2022. Why would it be any different for VW?