Got my first electricity bill since I started charging at home... holy *sugar* its high!

[maximizese]

Something is else must be going on here. My wife charges her S85 pretty much exclusively at home and drives a little over 2K miles a month, which comes out to about 700kWh of electricity for her car alone. We also charge our Fiat 500e about once a week, but we take advantage of our Time-of-Use and NEM with our solar array.

We average 1.6MWh during the summer months (5-ton central AC) and 1.1MWh during the winter (radiant electric heaters), but our electricity bill is about $200 for the year thanks to TOU and NEM where we generate a credit during the day at a higher rate, then consumer the bulk of our electricity overnight while the rate is at its lowest. The solar array was one of the better things I've done that has changed my lifestyle...I use to be an energy miser who sat in an 84F house during the summer and 64F during the winter (bless my wife for putting up with me).

OP: I'd monitor your electric meter to see if something else is draining your electricity while you're not charging compared to when you are charging.

 

[Lord09]

look at big money bags over here. So now you have dig yourself out of that 20k solar system @ an avg of $175 a month (that would have otherwise been your bill). Assuming that this example is correct ( it isn't, its only an example). It'll take around 9 1/2 years before you can actually throw stunna shades on. Math is cool.

Wish I could upvote. I have solar as well, but when I hear people go on and on how they don't pay a dime for electricity, but forget it'll take them 10+ years to recoup their initial investment I roll my eyes. Solar can be great, but posts like this can be misleading for those who don't completely understand benefits of solar.

 

[Bored7one4]

So I called the power company and the service rep said that they must have read the meter wrong on the 3rd bill i got. It only shows 444 kWh so

362 kWh 17 day bill 04/05/19 to 04/22/19 - PREVIOUS READING 334 kwh - CURRENT READING 696 kwh
1360 kWh 59 day bill 04/22/19 to 06/20/19 PREVIOUS READING 696kwh - CURRENT READING 2056kwh
444 kWh 61 day bill 06/20/19 to 08/20/19 PREVIOUS READING 2056kwh - CURRENT READING 2500kwh
4682 kWh 62 day bill. - Started charging at home 08/20/19 to 10/21/19 PREVIOUS READING 2056kwh - CURRENT READING 7182kwh

 

[maximizese]

Wish I could upvote. I have solar as well, but when I hear people go on and on how they don't pay a dime for electricity, but forget it'll take them 10+ years to recoup their initial investment I roll my eyes. Solar can be great, but posts like this can be misleading for those who don't completely understand benefits of solar.

I think it can be misleading on both sides. One side can understate their costs due to their own bias and elation with the product, while the other side overstates the expense and shortcomings. In this case wariqp3d assumes the total cost of a solar array is $28,200 when financed over 10 years. That sounds excessive as my 2 year old 4.8kW array was only $11K installed.

MorrisonHiker stated they installed solar and haven't had a bill in 8 months. Which from my experience is true because I only get one bill for the entire year in April when my NEM contract was signed. So that can be a complete true statement from a literal interpretation.

 

[davewill]

So I called the power company and the service rep said that they must have read the meter wrong on the 3rd bill i got. It only shows 444 kWh so

362 kWh 17 day bill 04/05/19 to 04/22/19 - PREVIOUS READING 334 kwh - CURRENT READING 696 kwh
1360 kWh 59 day bill 04/22/19 to 06/20/19 PREVIOUS READING 696kwh - CURRENT READING 2056kwh
444 kWh 61 day bill 06/20/19 to 08/20/19 PREVIOUS READING 2056kwh - CURRENT READING 2500kwh
4682 kWh 62 day bill. - Started charging at home 08/20/19 to 10/21/19 PREVIOUS READING 2056kwh - CURRENT READING 7182kwh

And the last bill where the previous reading is the same as the previous reading on the third bill where it should be 2500kWh. the current reading from the third bill. What does your meter say right now?

Edit: Nevermind, that's probably your typo as the difference of 4682 is 7182 - 2500.

Unfortunately, you can't just let the bill settle out because of the tiers. Some of the power you paid 20 cents for in the fourth bill should have been 12 cents in the previous one.

 

[Rocky_H]

So I called the power company and the service rep said that they must have read the meter wrong on the 3rd bill i got. It only shows 444 kWh so

362 kWh 17 day bill 04/05/19 to 04/22/19 - PREVIOUS READING 334 kwh - CURRENT READING 696 kwh
1360 kWh 59 day bill 04/22/19 to 06/20/19 PREVIOUS READING 696kwh - CURRENT READING 2056kwh
444 kWh 61 day bill 06/20/19 to 08/20/19 PREVIOUS READING 2056kwh - CURRENT READING 2500kwh
4682 kWh 62 day bill. - Started charging at home 08/20/19 to 10/21/19 PREVIOUS READING 2056kwh - CURRENT READING 7182kwh

Ah, yep, that makes all the sense. That 444 kWh is almost the same as the 17 day period, and wouldn't be in line with the other ones which are approximately 60 days. So a lot of that one didn't get counted and accidentally got included into the cumulative reading of the next one.

This comes up sometimes where people have not looked at their electricity bills before, but then they get an electric car, and then look at it for the first time, and are like, "Holy $#&%!! This car charging is outrageous!" No--it's something else.

Don't feel bad. At least you're not this other guy. I can't find his thread now, maybe because he was embarrassed and deleted it. He was asking why his Tesla was using up huge amounts of energy and driving up his electric bill (which he was apparently looking at for the first time). There were some questions and answers to try to figure out more details, and then he offhandedly mentioned what he thought was a minor detail about the garage where his car charged:
He has a collection of expensive classic guitars that he keeps in the garage, and he doesn't want them damaged by the cold, so he keeps a space heater running out there all the time to keep the garage warm. But he thought that would be some unnoticeable insignificant amount of energy because, "It's just a little heater" Umm, YES it sure would!

 

[MorrisonHiker]

look at big money bags over here. So now you have dig yourself out of that 20k solar system @ an avg of $175 a month (that would have otherwise been your bill). Assuming that this example is correct ( it isn't, its only an example). It'll take around 9 1/2 years before you can actually throw stunna shades on. Math is cool.

Wish I could upvote. I have solar as well, but when I hear people go on and on how they don't pay a dime for electricity, but forget it'll take them 10+ years to recoup their initial investment I roll my eyes. Solar can be great, but posts like this can be misleading for those who don't completely understand benefits of solar.

Thanks to tax credits and other credits and saving over $400 a month on electricity and gas, our system will pay for itself within ~4.5 years from date of installation. We'll also have free electricity for another 20 years after that. Math is cool, isn't it?

 

[brucet999]

I have a similar issue with SCE. They have a tiered system. First so much is pretty cheap, then when you get to the next tier it almost doubles and then again for the 3rd tier.

Small users get relatively inexpensive juice for their basic needs, but if you use more than just the essentials you get hit pretty hard.

Makes Unlimited Supercharging much more valuable. Can charge up on the way home from work at Supercharger, then still keep my home usage for just the basics.

Everybody seems to have a different system, and everybody uses their smarts to get the best deal they can.

SCE has TOU-A billing that allows overnight rates from 10pm to 8am of 12.5 cents per kWh. In exchange, your peak rates in the afternoon/evening are fairly high, but I found that changing from tiered rate (where I never went above tier 2) to TOU saved $125 per year without car charging; much, much more savings when car charging started because I charge overnight at 12.5 cents.

 

[DanCar]

Tesla solar will change the price to zero.

 

[wariqp3d]

Thanks to tax credits and other credits and saving over $400 a month on electricity and gas, our system will pay for itself within ~4.5 years from date of installation. We'll also have free electricity for another 20 years after that. Math is cool, isn't it?

Which proves my point. See ya in 4.5 years.

 

[Rocky_H]

X2 I agree. It's clearly not the car.

Already solved in comment #23. The electric company admitted they had a mistaken meter reading.
Got my first electricity bill since I started charging at home... holy *sugar* its high!

 

[brucet999]

look at big money bags over here. So now you have dig yourself out of that 20k solar system @ an avg of $175 a month (that would have otherwise been your bill). Assuming that this example is correct ( it isn't, its only an example). It'll take around 9 1/2 years before you can actually throw stunna shades on. Math is cool.

Your unnecessary ad hominem attack on @MorrisonHiker aside, your calculations miss the point. It is not about how long it takes to pay off the expenditure, it is about what the ROI is on one's investment in PV.

My system cost $20,700 for 5.3 kW system (including about a $2,000 premium for high efficiency inconspicuous black panels). After Federal 30% tax credit, net cost was about $14,500. Energy savings for the first year amounted to about $980, for a 6.75% tax-free ROI. For us, that works out to an equivalent of about 8.8% pre-tax investment yield, with no risk and certain to increase almost annually as SCE raises its rates.

 

[brucet999]

@Rocky_H, exactly what do you disagree with? Please explain.

My figures are actual and accurate. If one takes money out of his investments portfolio for an asset that yields substantial annual expenses savings, then it is entirely appropriate to view those savings as tax-free ROI.

 

[wariqp3d]

Your unnecessary ad hominem attack on @MorrisonHiker aside, your calculations miss the point. It is not about how long it takes to pay off the expenditure, it is about what the ROI is on one's investment in PV.

My system cost $20,700 for 5.3 kW system (including about a $2,000 premium for high efficiency inconspicuous black panels). After Federal 30% tax credit, net cost was about $14,500. Energy savings for the first year amounted to about $850, for a 5.8% tax-free ROI. For us, that works out to an equivalent of about 7.9% pre-tax investment yield, with no risk and certain to increase almost annually as SCE raises its rates.

No one was attacking anyone, chill out. Seems like i triggered a sensitive meter.
My point in this entire thing (which is now getting out of hand) is that going solar (which i think is great) isn't free, it's an investment that pays only after the initial investment is covered. So, if his ROI is 4.5 years, he is still paying a bill to cover his original electricity bill over the course of 4.5 years. Once that is covered, THEN you can wave the middle finger to SCE. And i clearly mentioned my example wasn't intended to be correct, it was a high exaggeration on paying down his investment over X period.

 

[Rocky_H]

Your unnecessary ad hominem attack on @MorrisonHiker aside, your calculations miss the point. It is not about how long it takes to pay off the expenditure, it is about what the ROI is on one's investment in PV.

My system cost $20,700 for 5.3 kW system (including about a $2,000 premium for high efficiency inconspicuous black panels). After Federal 30% tax credit, net cost was about $14,500. Energy savings for the first year amounted to about $850, for a 5.8% tax-free ROI. For us, that works out to an equivalent of about 7.9% pre-tax investment yield, with no risk and certain to increase almost annually as SCE raises its rates.

@wariqp3d is certainly correct. And yes, it is (somewhat) about how long it takes to pay off the expenditure. That's what the ROI investment calculation is! You're still at a loss after the first year...and the second year...and the third... At some point, the small differences will accumulate to a crossover point, and it it will after some longer number of years equal a positive ROI...eventually. But yes, that is a valid point that it's naive to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a large package of something long term and say it's "free". It will have a long term return, but not at first. And that is not always guaranteed. House burns down, etc. etc. could prevent the long term positive ROI from coming to fruition.

@Rocky_H, exactly what do you disagree with? Please explain.

Dang--give me a second to finish typing my response.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

But yes, that is a valid point that it's naive to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a large package of something long term and say it's "free". It will have a long term return, but not at first. And that is not always guaranteed. House burns down, etc. etc. could prevent the long term positive ROI from coming to fruition.

Hmm. I don't know if you were referring to my posts but I didn't say it was free. I said I haven't had an electric bill in the past 8 months. I haven't.

When we started discussing ROI, I mentioned it would take 4.5 years from installation until I break-even. After that, the electricity is free for the next 20+ years.

 

[MIT_S60]

I have a similar issue with SCE. They have a tiered system. First so much is pretty cheap, then when you get to the next tier it almost doubles and then again for the 3rd tier.

Small users get relatively inexpensive juice for their basic needs, but if you use more than just the essentials you get hit pretty hard.

Makes Unlimited Supercharging much more valuable. Can charge up on the way home from work at Supercharger, then still keep my home usage for just the basics.

Everybody seems to have a different system, and everybody uses their smarts to get the best deal they can.

You should switch to TOU (time of use) rates. Tiered is going to be significantly more expensive. You might actually end up saving money over tiered. And yes, free unlimited supercharging is nice, but it's much faster and easier just to plug in at night and be fully charged in the morning with low night time rates.

 

[Uncle Paul]

SCE ran the numbers for me, and estimated I would save about $8/year by switching to TOU. Not worth it to restructure all my energy use to less convenience. No need to get up at 4:00 AM to do laundry or run vacuum. They just switched high rates to 8:00 PM. because of all the local Solar pumping juice into their grid.

Best option (over Solar) was to install a Quiet Cool fan in my upstairs ceiling. I now cool down my home in the evenings when the outside air is chilly. Then in the morning close all the doors. My home stays cool most of the day and I need to run my AC rarely.

Last month my bill was $74, but the month before, when the evenings did not cool down so much and we had visitors, the bill was $190.

When my consumption is low, I charge at home for the convenience, but when I figure I will over use my base rate, I'll Supercharge once a week. Usually multi-task when charging, so not inconvenient for me

SCE keeps changing their rates and policies. Next step will be to install Solar, then run on sunshine.

Some SCE areas are shutting down power to their customers when conditions are ripe for a forest fire. They are becoming less and less reliable. That also is moving me to Solar.

 

[maximizese]

SCE ran the numbers for me, and estimated I would save about $8/year by switching to TOU. Not worth it to restructure all my energy use to less convenience. No need to get up at 4:00 AM to do laundry or run vacuum. They just switched high rates to 8:00 PM. because of all the local Solar pumping juice into their grid.

Best option (over Solar) was to install a Quiet Cool fan in my upstairs ceiling. I now cool down my home in the evenings when the outside air is chilly. Then in the morning close all the doors. My home stays cool most of the day and I need to run my AC rarely.

Last month my bill was $74, but the month before, when the evenings did not cool down so much and we had visitors, the bill was $190.

When my consumption is low, I charge at home for the convenience, but when I figure I will over use my base rate, I'll Supercharge once a week. Usually multi-task when charging, so not inconvenient for me

SCE keeps changing their rates and policies. Next step will be to install Solar, then run on sunshine.

Some SCE areas are shutting down power to their customers when conditions are ripe for a forest fire. They are becoming less and less reliable. That also is moving me to Solar.

I'm loving our Quiet Cool WHF in our single story ranch house. I'm thinking about installing one in my mom's 2-story house since she does not have AC and lives right off the beach (though humidity becomes a factor in the early morning). My WHF uses 110Wh versus the 5.5kWh my old AC compressor uses. Our dishwasher, washing machine, and dryer all have delay functions that allows you start the process hours later.

We're up at 4:30am-5am anyways to workout so that gives me plenty of meddle with the high-electricity appliances and switch the EVSE from the Tesla to our Fiat while on super-off peak. I say, don't be wasteful but don't go so far that you're inconveniencing those you love...they might not love you after too long

TOU, solar energy, and electric vehicles all take adjustments and the pros/cons will vary greatly amongst people with different lifestyles. There is no "one size fits all" in this case. Besides some don't care about the economics, but value the aspects of sustainability.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

I was guessing meter reading problem, so glad you solved it. I’m on the other side of things. My utility sent a notification and $500 bill because the electric meter wasn’t working and has been showing ZERO used since March. Apparently, the current transformer was bad. It took them 4-5 trips out to figure it out and fix it. Now, you’re probably wondering why I didn’t realize that something was wrong. Well, my electricity use is low anyway and at $0.06/KWh, is a very very insignificant part of my utility bill which includes taxes, ambulance, fees, water, sewer, trash, each with a base fee whether I use anything or not. It’s a basic scam, but my total bill is $200 +/- all of the time, so it’s not hard to miss $20.