nwdiver
Well-Known Member
???? You think people in the rest of the world don't buy US products?
You're looking at the economy like it's tic-tac-toe when it's 3D chess...
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Green New Deal
- Thread starter mspohr
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???? You think people in the rest of the world don't buy US products?
You're looking at the economy like it's tic-tac-toe when it's 3D chess...
People act like when the government collects taxes, that money is burned and disappears from the economy. What happens is the government then spends that money, which stimulates the economy.
Sam VS Libertarians - YouTube
Sam VS Libertarians - YouTube
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
juliusa
Active Member
I am torn on this one. In one sense, I agree. Eliminate the charitable deductions/exclusions. CT income tax does not have a charitable deduction - it is simply a gross receipts tax.
The counter argument is a good one though. Charitable organization "theoretically" do something good, that the government would not have to do. Building homes for the poor, meals, shelter, education - all sorts of things. By having a charitable deduction, the charities have to compete for the dollars from the donors, and based on what the donors give the government kicks in some matching funds. A rich person that pays a 30% marginal tax gives away $100 - but he really gives away $70 and the government kicks in $30.
My sense is it is not going away. The charities have a very strong lobby.
If you remember my proposal it was to cap the charitable deduction/exclusion for the uber wealthy. I guess it was a compromise or perhaps I'm just indecisive.
juliusa
Active Member
Because that is where the Gates Foundation spends most of their money.
Then again, our government spends a lot of money outside our country too.
juliusa
Active Member
Can't you accept agreement? I am agreeing that we have to redistribute income from some people to other people, and/or redistribute wealth from some people to other people.
But let's not sugar coat it and say we are raising taxes on the rich to fund the government. We are taking from the rich to give stuff to others.
juliusa
Active Member
Yes, of course. All those transfer payments from migrant workers in the US to Mexico and other countries stimulates our economy. They are sending money home so they can buy a US product...like a Tesla.
You just got through telling me that people in this country don't have enough money to buy stuff - you think the US charity money going to third-world economies is being used to buy US-made goods??
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Money moving is good. Stop being so absurdly myopic. That's the kind of intentional ignorance that makes people think a trade deficit is the equivalent of losing something......
So is a speeding ticket armed robbery if I never personally agreed that 70mph is reasonable? This is a democracy. If we agree that for the benefit of society we need less wealth inequality it's not 'taking'.
juliusa
Active Member
Income redistribution is robin hood - taking from the rich to give to others. Warren is quite clear - take from the rich to give free college.
If we need income/wealth redistribution to benefit society, then why not just say that?
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The world is larger than the US. From what I see they spend a proportional amount in the US.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yes we need to reverse the trend of the rich taking from society and hoarding wealth. It's unbalanced and unsustainable.
I absolutely agree that this one is almost politically impossible. At least the nonprofit side of things. But I am coming to believe that the religious nonprofit lobby may have a sunset in sight. Recently it was shown that over 50% of Americans don't associate themselves with a church, even if they're still "spiritual." Once we realize that all of us are paying for some nontrivial chunk of their operations through tax benefits, I think there could be enough momentum to eliminate this one. It's probably decades away, but I believe I might see it in my lifetime.
FWIW, and I realize I'm not part of that subconversation, I'm absolutely willing to say it. Wealth redistribution appears to be a beneficial policy for our current society, based on what we know today. And I don't think there's anything negative about it, despite the negative connotation it has been given in this country.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Seriously, this has always seemed to be a blatant violation of separation of church and state. Citizens shouldn't be forced to help finance religion.
juliusa
Active Member
We shall see. I think they have a pretty strong lobby. Coasters may be underestimating fly overs on this one. I'm pretty sure that dues paid to religious organizations are the only "dues" that are fully tax deductible.
Now I'm starting to lean towards just eliminating charitable deductions completely. Also get rid of non-profit status. Period. If the Gates foundation has investments that make a profit, why not have them pay taxes on it? Same for the Harvard endowment. If there is an asset tax (which I still disagree with), then why not apply it to endowments? And why shouldn't non-profits, schools, and religious organization pay property taxes? Don't they need the same fire, police, and other services that for-profit businesses need?
We could probably get rid of half the IRS staff.
Mader Levap
Member
I am afraid I am not republican, libertanian or other right-wing nutter. So I have no motivation or inclination to pretend that everything is fine and dandy with current state of affairs and problems like large economic inequality.
Yeeah, poor riffraff should fix their attitude and just shup up and stop saying things that I do not want to hear. Now who is bigot? *rolleyes*
Only when certain conditions are met. I summarized these conditions as "having boot on capitalism's face", since this system is inherently abusive and great deal of work is needed to create and maintain something livable for someone that is not proverbial 1%.
Of course, minority that is well off thanks to that system do not see any problem whatsoever and demand those less lucky should shut up. History tells us how this kind of attitude ends up.
Of course it can, and I do not talk just about taxes. They can, for example, seize your car in case of war.
Certain loony ideologies claim government is always evil and inefficient - it is as nonsensical as claim it is always good and fine. It produces "hilarious" (in dark way) results when party with said ideology is IN government.
We must have a green industrial revolution. And Labour will lead it
We must have a green industrial revolution. And Labour will lead it | Rebecca Long-Bailey
Modeled after Green New Deal
We must have a green industrial revolution. And Labour will lead it | Rebecca Long-Bailey
Modeled after Green New Deal
Universal Health Care Might Cost You Less Than You Think Opinion | Universal Health Care Might Cost You Less Than You Think
One common refrain on the right and the center-left alike: Since the rich can’t foot the bill alone, are middle- and working-class supporters of a more socialized health care system really ready to pay as much for it as people do in some of the high-tax nations that have one?
The problem is, we already do, and we often pay more.
It’s true that by conventional measures, taxes on workers’ wages in the United States are comparatively very low and even very progressive, affecting the lowest-earning workers the least and taxing those who can afford it more.
But these measures obscure an important fact of American life: Unlike workers in many other countries, the vast majority of American employees have private health insurance premiums deducted from their paychecks.
If we reimagine these premiums as taxes, we’d realize that Americans pay some of the highest and least progressive labor taxes in the developed world.
For instance, according to this analysis, American families that earn around $43,000, half of the average wage, pay 37 percent of their wages to taxes and health care premiums. In high-tax Finland, the same type of family pays 23 percent of their compensation in labor taxes, which includes taxes they pay to support universal health care. In France, it’s 2 percent. In the United Kingdom and Canada, it is less than 0 percent after government benefits.
One common refrain on the right and the center-left alike: Since the rich can’t foot the bill alone, are middle- and working-class supporters of a more socialized health care system really ready to pay as much for it as people do in some of the high-tax nations that have one?
The problem is, we already do, and we often pay more.
It’s true that by conventional measures, taxes on workers’ wages in the United States are comparatively very low and even very progressive, affecting the lowest-earning workers the least and taxing those who can afford it more.
But these measures obscure an important fact of American life: Unlike workers in many other countries, the vast majority of American employees have private health insurance premiums deducted from their paychecks.
If we reimagine these premiums as taxes, we’d realize that Americans pay some of the highest and least progressive labor taxes in the developed world.
For instance, according to this analysis, American families that earn around $43,000, half of the average wage, pay 37 percent of their wages to taxes and health care premiums. In high-tax Finland, the same type of family pays 23 percent of their compensation in labor taxes, which includes taxes they pay to support universal health care. In France, it’s 2 percent. In the United Kingdom and Canada, it is less than 0 percent after government benefits.
Six people who prove capitalism is broken in America
Six people who prove capitalism is broken in America
Work hard, get paid, thrive. That’s the way the system is supposed to work. If you’re not thriving, according to this logic, you’re simply not working hard enough.
But that’s not the reality many people live, even in wealthy, industrialized nations like the United States. For many Americans, long hours and unrelenting dedication to their job are not enough to save them from homelessness, debt, and other humiliations.
Six people who prove capitalism is broken in America
Work hard, get paid, thrive. That’s the way the system is supposed to work. If you’re not thriving, according to this logic, you’re simply not working hard enough.
But that’s not the reality many people live, even in wealthy, industrialized nations like the United States. For many Americans, long hours and unrelenting dedication to their job are not enough to save them from homelessness, debt, and other humiliations.
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