Green New Deal

[juliusa]

US showing leadership in shifting to renewables and cleaner energy.

Renewable generation surpasses coal generation for the first time in April.
Natural gas generation now always greater than coal generation.

Our grid continues to get cleaner.

IEEFA U.S.: April is shaping up to be momentous in transition from coal to renewables - Institute for Energy Economics & Financial Analysis

 

[SageBrush]

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I hope you are not tired of facts ? Here is a report of the healthcare costs of metabolic syndrome in Germany, Spain and Italy:

Epidemiological and economic burden of metabolic syndrome and its consequences in patients with hypertension in Germany, Spain and Italy; a prevalence-based model

Other reports indicate that people with a diagnosis of diabetes are about 2x more expensive than those with metabolic syndrome.
Recent data says that of Americans over 20 years old, 10% are diagnosed with diabetes and about 25% have metabolic syndrome.

Add it up. This is not rocket science.
Ah ... heck. I'll pitch in using some simple parameterization only related to the spectrum of metabolic syndrome to diabetes:
10% of the adult US population have 3x the costs of controls
33% of the adult US population have 1.5 the costs of controls
57% (the controls) have neither

0.3x + 0.5x + 0.57x = 1.37x
Translated: in the USA today obesity/diabetes increases overall healthcare costs by 37%

I have not touched on tobacco, salt abuse, drug abuse, alcoholism, cancer and end-of-life "care" costs yet. I hope you realize that most of cancer is lifestyle related.

 

[mspohr]

As the left wakes up to climate injustice, we must not fall into ‘green colonialism’

As the left wakes up to climate injustice, we must not fall into ‘green colonialism’ | Dalia Gebrial

We certainly have a role in the urgent action required to face up to the crisis. We must contribute our fair share to the global effort to stay under 1.5C warming. This means no more incrementalism: it means immediately dismantling the neo-colonial role played by our energy companies throughout the world; contributing our fair share to the global transfer of wealth needed for mitigation programmes in the global south, and breaking the political bond between the City of London and the fossil fuel industry. It also means radically changing the role we play in global climate negotiations, which has historically been one of talking over those suffering the sharpest edge of climate chaos. These negotiations need to be democratised, legally binding and a space in which we listen, learn and then take action.

It's time for nations to unite around an International Green New Deal | Yanis Varoufakis and David Adler
This means understanding that any “Green New Deal” or “green industrial revolution” cannot be bound within our nation’s borders, or prioritise the wellbeing of westerners over black and brown lives in the rest of the world. As we make these moves towards climate emergency, it is important that progressives do not internalise the colonial principles that got us in this mess, either by simply ignoring the global historical context of resistance to emergency issues, or even actively arguing we should under-develop Bombay to deliver growth in Wigan. Indeed, the industrial revolution was financed and sustained by the blood money and infrastructure of slavery and colonialism; a “green” version of this is no better.

 

[mspohr]

I hope you are not tired of facts ? Here is a report of the healthcare costs of metabolic syndrome in Germany, Spain and Italy:

Epidemiological and economic burden of metabolic syndrome and its consequences in patients with hypertension in Germany, Spain and Italy; a prevalence-based model

Other reports indicate that people with a diagnosis of diabetes are about 2x more expensive than those with metabolic syndrome.
Recent data says that of Americans over 20 years old, 10% are diagnosed with diabetes and about 25% have metabolic syndrome.

Add it up. This is not rocket science.
Ah ... heck. I'll pitch in using some simple parameterization only related to the spectrum of metabolic syndrome to diabetes:
10% of the adult US population have 3x the costs of controls
33% of the adult US population have 1.5 the costs of controls
57% (the controls) have neither

0.3x + 0.5x + 0.57x = 1.37x
Translated: in the USA today obesity/diabetes increases overall healthcare costs by 37%

I have not touched on tobacco, salt abuse, drug abuse, alcoholism, cancer and end-of-life "care" costs yet. I hope you realize that most of cancer is lifestyle related.

To repeat, I am fully aware of the cost of chronic debilitating diseases such as diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc. and these additional references only reinforce the point.
You seem to think that the US has a higher prevalence of these diseases than other developed countries and that is the reason for high US healthcare costs. I disagree. Other developed countries which have similar prevalences of these diseases are able to provide (usually better) treatment for them at a much lower cost than the US. The references you just posted reinforce my point.
The reason for high healthcare costs in the US is the prices. US doctors, hospitals, pharmaceuticals are all priced much higher than other countries and that is the reason the US spends about twice what other countries spend and still has poor health outcomes (because many people can't afford proper health care).

 

[SageBrush]

Other developed countries which have similar prevalences of these diseases are able to provide (usually better) treatment for them at a much lower cost than the US.

Perhaps you missed this from the reference you re-quoted ?

The economic burden to the health service of metabolic syndrome in patients with hypertension was been estimated at €24,427, €1,900 and €4,877 million in Germany, Spain and Italy

I don't know all the reason(s) for the differences although I trust German record keeping.
Germany has ~ 80M population, which works out to a shared cost of 300 Euros per person per year just for the metabolic syndrome and its CV consequences. That does not include the litany of other morbidities that come along. Shall I post a link of obesity co-morbidities for you ? Here you go, a partial list: Obesity and its comorbid conditions. - PubMed - NCBI

US population is about 330M
German population is about 80M
US has 33M cases of T2diabetes
Germany has ~ 5.9M cases
That works out to a 1.43x higher prevalence of diabetes

The western 'lifestyle' is expensive no matter the payment scheme

 

[mspohr]

Perhaps you missed this from the reference you re-quoted ?
I don't know all the reason(s) for the differences although I trust German record keeping.
Germany has ~ 80M population, which works out to a shared cost of 300 Euros per person per year just for the metabolic syndrome and its CV consequences. That does not include the litany of other morbidities that come along. Shall I post a link of obesity co-morbidities for you ? Here you go, a partial list: Obesity and its comorbid conditions. - PubMed - NCBI

The western 'lifestyle' is expensive no matter the payment scheme

To repeat, again, yes, I agree that these diseases are expensive everywhere. However, they do not explain the outrageously high cost of US health care.

 

[SageBrush]

I apologize for the multiple posts, TMC prevents me from editing after an hour.

Say the US switched to a UK style NHS:
Judging by http://obesityhealthalliance.org.uk...7/10/OHA-briefing-paper-Costs-of-Obesity-.pdf
from 2006 data, the NHS spent ~ 5 billion pounds for obesity related morbidity and that is acknowledged to be a partial accounting. Feel free to normalize for inflation, the prevalence of obesity then in the UK compared to the USA in 2019, and population.

 

[mspohr]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...af3d2e67c6d_story.html?utm_term=.8a73ce0ef3b0

 

[nwdiver]

If you haven't seen 'Knock Down the House' on Netflix.... you really need to.

 

[JRP3]

Not something you'd expect to see:

“Trump supporters for Ocasio-Cortez.”

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter

 

[mspohr]

How health insurance changed from protecting patients to seeking profit
Insurance policy
How an industry shifted from protecting patients to seeking profit

 

[mspohr]

Another example of our totally corrupt healthcare system and why we need Medicare for all.

They Want It to Be Secret: How a Common Blood Test Can Cost $11 or Almost $1,000 They Want It to Be Secret: How a Common Blood Test Can Cost $11 or Almost $1,000

It’s one of the most common tests in medicine, and it is performed millions of times a year around the country. Should a metabolic blood panel test cost $11 or $952?

Both of these are real, negotiated prices, paid by health insurance companies to laboratories in Jackson, Miss., and El Paso in 2016. New data, analyzing the health insurance claims of 34 million Americans covered by large commercial insurance companies, shows that enormous swings in price for identical services are common in health care. In just one market — Tampa, Fla. — the most expensive blood test costs 40 times as much as the least expensive one.

Huge price discrepancies like that are unimaginable in other industries. Also unusual: not knowing the fee ahead of time.

 

[mspohr]

Humanity will run out of limited global resources long before the US runs out of dollars. Britain needs something like Ms Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal. And we need it now – before it is too late.

The Guardian view on a Green New Deal: we need it now | Editorial

This will not be easy. Economic power has become increasingly concentrated, giving rise to grotesque levels of inequality – both within and among countries. With financial speculation now a feature of capitalism, so are fraud and instability. Meanwhile, investment in public goods across the globe has stagnated. Growth increasingly relies on resource extraction, threatening civilisation itself. Ms Ocasio-Cortez’s plan recognises this and is rooted in making the economy both greener and more equitable. Her prospectus calls for a reduction in the inequality of income and wealth, essential given that the world’s richest 10% are responsible for half of carbon emissions. It sees large public spending to transform the US economy with an industrial base that would be net-zero in carbon emissions in a few decades. The plan is to create good job opportunities as the economy is made sustainably viable for the future.

 

[David_Cary]

All this health care debate is great and all but the answer is complicated and there are truths to both sides of the argument.
I don't think it is controversial at all to say that insurance overhead takes up money. Every pencil pusher from those companies takes a salary and provides zero health care. We can argue about how much money but there is clearly money removed. Now - someone could argue that they increase efficiency. That is pretty dubious. They can eliminate waste and unneeded care by refusing to pay for it. It is an expensive way to do that but it does work. We could do better at lower cost. A lot of this is both patient and physician expectations. There is very little concern by both to reduce costs. There is some - and I am sure it varies by income level, region etc.

But expectations play a huge role.

Other countries have less MDs. And they work less hours and see less patients. And make less money. I am not sure that is a big factor overall. On some level it is. But the primary care in the US is frequently by NPs, PAs etc. They supplant MDs.

Obesity is a huge driver of costs. There is no denying of that.

Hospitals (and other care) is expensive in the US. That is a function of how much money is in the system partly. And expectation driven. Wait time expectations. Private room expectations. Cleanliness level expectations (and not just cleaning rooms but condition of paint etc).

All of these things drive costs. Thinking that it is all insurance or MD greed is misguided. Thinking it is all lifestyle is also not true. Sorting it out is difficult.

As an MD, I have been against Medicare for all for some time. But the ACA did its job - which was to make private insurance increasingly unsustainable. We are now faced with that reality, so the time has come for Medicare for all. The upper middle are going to be very frustrated with it but it will provide a healthier population at lower cost. There will be a lot of cash based health care.

The GND is a hard enough sell so I am not sure that tying that in with income inequality and health care makes it an easier sell. I get that all these things are intertwined but the haves won't change their position in society that easily. And to pretend that it doesn't is myopic. And to think the have-nots are united is absurd.

We unfortunately need a revolution to change a few things and we aren't there yet. So the Earth suffers.

 

[ggies07]

John Oliver's latest segment with some humor thrown in there of course.....the ending is great. hahaha.

 

[mspohr]

Good news! (But not surprising)
Medicaid works to make people healthier and it is cost effective.

Medicaid is expensive, and critics argue that it get people insured at the expense of the private sector. But study after study find that Medicaid has a huge return on investment for state and federal government.

Also, here is an explanation of why US healthcare is so expensive.

 

[mspohr]

AOC Condemns Middle of the Road Approaches on Combating Climate Change.

The world is on fire, in crisis. We don’t have time for politics as usual.

It’s time for a Green New Deal

 

[mspohr]

Democrats Flesh Out Green New Deal With Bill To End Sales Of Gas-Burning Cars By 2040 | HuffPost

Over the past six months, the Green New Deal has emerged as a new guiding vision for climate policy, calling for a decadelong industrial plan to zero out emissions, fortify infrastructure and eliminate poverty with millions of union-wage jobs. But while the movement is fast becoming a major political force, particularly ahead of the 2020 Democratic primaries, the Green New Deal’s proponents have yet to produce any actual policy.

“When I take a lungful of air in this moment, it has 30% more carbon in it than when I was born,” Merkley told HuffPost. “That is a change that has never happened in a single generation of humankind on this planet.”

The zero-emissions vehicle bill offers one example of what policy to cut emissions from transportation, the United States’ largest source of planet-warming gases, could look like.

“This is just one small contributor to that vision,” Merkley said. “But we need to develop the details around many ideas so those ideas are ready to be combined into a larger package.”

 

[ggies07]

Democrats Flesh Out Green New Deal With Bill To End Sales Of Gas-Burning Cars By 2040 | HuffPost

Over the past six months, the Green New Deal has emerged as a new guiding vision for climate policy, calling for a decadelong industrial plan to zero out emissions, fortify infrastructure and eliminate poverty with millions of union-wage jobs. But while the movement is fast becoming a major political force, particularly ahead of the 2020 Democratic primaries, the Green New Deal’s proponents have yet to produce any actual policy.

“When I take a lungful of air in this moment, it has 30% more carbon in it than when I was born,” Merkley told HuffPost. “That is a change that has never happened in a single generation of humankind on this planet.”

The zero-emissions vehicle bill offers one example of what policy to cut emissions from transportation, the United States’ largest source of planet-warming gases, could look like.

“This is just one small contributor to that vision,” Merkley said. “But we need to develop the details around many ideas so those ideas are ready to be combined into a larger package.”

I don't want to admit this, but I'm slowly losing hope....especially if somehow Trump wins again....I will be 65 in 2050 and fear that I will have to look into my adult daughter's eyes and say I did all I could as your father. People just don't get how fast we have to do all this....

Solar, wind, battery storage, EVs. It's not that ****ing hard to get....If I was a philanthropist I would be spending my money and time educating those in the coal states.

sigh....sorry. /depressing rant

 

[mspohr]

I don't want to admit this, but I'm slowly losing hope....especially if somehow Trump wins again....I will be 65 in 2050 and fear that I will have to look into my adult daughter's eyes and say I did all I could as your father. People just don't get how fast we have to do all this....

Solar, wind, battery storage, EVs. It's not that ****ing hard to get....If I was a philanthropist I would be spending my money and time educating those in the coal states.

sigh....sorry. /depressing rant