Green New Deal

[juliusa]

.... I'm saying that CA reducing it's imports by 90TWh/yr cannot decrease coal consumption by 90TWh/yr because the power intake during most of the periods when CA needed power exceeded the available output of coal plants. Math.

Did you see the chart? The intake is very steady, perfect for base load reduction.

CA is the problem. Shifting their carbon emissions to other states. Want to reduce carbon?? Produce your own energy.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Nuclear war would be a more effective way of reducing current population.

Just wipe us all out and then we don't even have to care about sustainability.

 

[nwdiver]

Did you see the chart? The intake is very steady, perfect for base load reduction.

CA is the problem. Shifting their carbon emissions to other states. Want to reduce carbon?? Produce your own energy.

??? It doubles in ~4 hours. Not steady. Not something coal is very good at. CA reducing their imports would reduce coal consumption proportionally at best and only 14% of their imports is from coal.

LOL... definently not steady. Let alone 'very steady'...

 

[Darren F]

What did you end up with?

The installers in my area were within 10% of a GSHP system so I didn’t make the jump one way or another. But I completely agree, the last two years have seen a tremendous amount of development for ASHPs. Not so much in cost reduction of the low temp super high efficiency systems- but the mid to high end products have really come down in price. If things hold, that may be the way I go.

We installed 9kBTU Fujitsu mini split heat pumps. I wanted the most efficient I could get at the time. And if you're handy, they are pretty easy to install. the only thing I needed an HVAC guy for was to vacuum the lines and do the final connection.

This is what I got.
Fujitsu 9RLS3H - 9k BTU Cooling + Heating - RLS3H Wall Mounted Air Conditioning System - 33.0 SEER

 

[juliusa]

LOL... definently not steady. Let alone 'very steady'...

All CA has to do is stop importing power, and it will result in the closure of coal plants.

The imported load is base load, but that does not matter. Any power CA stops importing will result in the reduction of coal generation outside CA.

Base load: The highest cost base load is coal plants, and therefore they will close first.
Peaker Load: The highest cost generation is coal, so coal plants will close and natural gas peaker plants will pick up that load, and become base load plants at a lower cost.

This is Econ 101 stuff. Highest cost plants close first.

All CA has to do is stop leaching off other states' electricity generation - 100% of the net imports eliminated will be coal.

CA does not have to become an island - all they have to do is stop being a NET importer of electricity. They can import during certain times of the day or year, the just need to have exports to balance it out. They need to generate as much as they use annually - not daily.

Coal is being steadily eliminated by natural gas and renewables. The more renewables (and even natural gas) CA adds, the more coal will be reduced. It is really quite simple.

 

[ohmman]

All CA has to do is stop importing power, and it will result in the closure of coal plants.

The imported load is base load, but that does not matter. Any power CA stops importing will result in the reduction of coal generation outside CA.

Base load: The highest cost base load is coal plants, and therefore they will close first.
Peaker Load: The highest cost generation is coal, so coal plants will close and natural gas peaker plants will pick up that load, and become base load plants at a lower cost.

This is Econ 101 stuff. Highest cost plants close first.

All CA has to do is stop leaching off other states' electricity generation - 100% of the net imports eliminated will be coal.

CA does not have to become an island - all they have to do is stop being a NET importer of electricity. They can import during certain times of the day or year, the just need to have exports to balance it out. They need to generate as much as they use annually - not daily.

Coal is being steadily eliminated by natural gas and renewables. The more renewables (and even natural gas) CA adds, the more coal will be reduced. It is really quite simple.

You seem obsessed with California.

 

[SageBrush]

CA is the problem. Shifting their carbon emissions to other states. Want to reduce carbon?? Produce your own energy.

It would help if you actually had a clue. Start here, and focus on the cap & trade program.
Greenhouse Gas Cap-and-Trade Program

Then review this table .. that is already improved upon in 2018. Remember that clean DG (small commercial and residential) is separate.

 

[nwdiver]

All CA has to do is stop importing power, and it will result in the closure of coal plants.

The imported load is base load, but that does not matter. Any power CA stops importing will result in the reduction of coal generation outside CA.

Base load: The highest cost base load is coal plants, and therefore they will close first.
Peaker Load: The highest cost generation is coal, so coal plants will close and natural gas peaker plants will pick up that load, and become base load plants at a lower cost.

This is Econ 101 stuff. Highest cost plants close first.

Look at the import trend. That's not how the grid works. The imports in the early morning is likely surplus wind from the NW that would be curtailed if CA wasn't importing it. The imports in the evening are likely gas turbines because that's the only generator that can ramp that quickly. Reduced imports to CA would likely waste a ton of wind, lower gas consumption and maybe reduce coal generation by ~10TWh/yr certainly not ~90TWh/yr. Wyoming needs to break its fools fuel addiction.

I bet Wyoming would love to ramp their coal output from 5GW to 10GW to meet the evening demand in CA. Doesn't happen because physics. Physics trumps economics every time.

 

[juliusa]

You seem obsessed with California.

Countering @nwdiver obsession with Wyoming.

 

[nwdiver]

Countering @nwdiver obsession with Wyoming.

Because Wyoming is a very 'special' state....

 

[juliusa]

Look at the import trend. That's not how the grid works.

The grid works just fine, and that is exactly how the grid works.

California does not have to be an island - just simply import and export the same amount during the span of a year.

100% of the current net imports will be eliminated by new generation in California (presumably renewables), and 100% of that will reduce coal.

 

[juliusa]

Because Wyoming is a very 'special' state....

As is California, exporting their emissions.

Every kW of imports California eliminates will be 1 kW reduction in coal generation.

It is all on California for letting coal plants supply power for decades as they simply imported electricity. What a travesty for the environment caused by their mismanagement.

CA can fix it, if the rate payers are willing.

 

[nwdiver]

The grid works just fine, and that is exactly how the grid works.

.... 2am CA imports surplus wind from the NW. Explain how importing less wind would decrease coal consumption...

.... 5pm CA ramps imports from ~5GW to ~10GW. It takes a day for a coal plant to ramp up like that so gas meets that increase in demand. Explain how importing less gas in the evening reduces coal consumption.

Physics.

 

[juliusa]

Because Wyoming is a very 'special' state....

You forgot that they also produce 3x the energy from renewables per capita as California.

 

[nwdiver]

You forgot that they also produce 3x the energy from renewables per capita as California.

Kinda washes out when they use ~5x as much energy..... Math.

 

[juliusa]

.... 2am CA imports surplus wind from the NW. Explain how importing less wind would decrease coal consumption...

.... 5pm CA ramps imports from ~5GW to ~10GW. It takes a day for a coal plant to ramp up like that so gas meets that increase in demand. Explain how importing less gas in the evening reduces coal consumption.

Physics.

All that goes away when California stops becoming a net importer of electricity. The ramp will be handled by battery and pump storage as part of California's build of renewable energy.

Please stop feeding the coal argument that the grid cannot operate on renewables. We need to move past generating electricity from coal.

All that coal generation is on CA. CA has plenty of natural gas to use for peaker plants.

 

[nwdiver]

All that goes away when California stops becoming a net importer of electricity.

Yes. Mostly less wind generated and less gas generated. Physics. Math.

Please stop feeding the coal argument that the grid cannot operate on renewables.

Pass that along to the morons in Wyoming that get ~90% of their electricity from coal when they have the highest wind resource in the country.

 

[juliusa]

Yes. Mostly less wind generated and less gas generated. Physics. Math.

Wind will be generated and stored.
Gas will generate and replace coal. Gas is very suitable for base load generation.

Economics.

 

[juliusa]

Pass that along to the morons in Wyoming that get ~90% of their electricity from coal when they have the highest wind resource in the country.

False. They get half their electricity from coal. They export the other half that is generated from coal.

 

[mspohr]

False. They get half their electricity from coal. They export the other half that is generated from coal.

If they only get half their electricity from coal, where does the other half come from?