Green New Deal

[mspohr]

Up to 43m Americans could lose health insurance amid pandemic, report says

Up to 43m Americans could lose health insurance amid pandemic, report says

Such enormous insurance losses could dramatically alter America’s healthcare landscape, and will probably result in more deaths as people avoid unaffordable healthcare.

“The American healthcare financing system was not built to withstand the combined impact of a pandemic and a recession,” said Dr Adam Gaffney, the president of Physicians for a National Health Program. PNHP advocates for a single-payer health system in the US, similar to the NHS. “It’s inevitable that people will die because they can’t get the care they need, because of the looming recession.”

 

[rays427]

....... is there some kind of point buried in there or are you just describing the facts on the ground?

Just describing the facts that those that have lost their jobs are in many if not most cases better off than those that still have their jobs. So the point that folks that have lost their jobs are hurting financially is not correct. It's also not fare for those that are still working and making less than $25/hour.

 

[nwdiver]

Just describing the facts that those that have lost their jobs are in many if not most cases better off than those that still have their jobs. So the point that folks that have lost their jobs are hurting financially is not correct. It's also not fare for those that are still working and making less than $25/hour.

Seems like a good reason to start a blanket $2k/mo regardless of employment status.

 

[mspohr]

Seems like a good reason to start a blanket $2k/mo regardless of employment status.

That and universal health care so they can actually go to the doctor when they get sick.

 

[rays427]

That and universal health care so they can actually go to the doctor when they get sick.

No problem. There are 209 million adults in the US so that times $24,000 per year is only $5 trillion. Since this is more than what the average Social Security recipient gets I would expect they would prefer getting the $2,000 per month. If you back out the cost of SS ($1 trillion) you only need and additional $4 trillion. Including the free healthcare the total would be more than the total US budget of about $4.5 trillion per year. So total budget would be around $9 trillion. Since the total earnings in the US is about $11 trillion those working would get to take home a total of $2 trillion after taxes. I would expect that a lot of folks especially couples getting $48,000 per year would decide it's not worth working. Those left working would share the $2 trillion as additional take home pay. So if you assume 100 million continue to work they would average $20,000 more than those not working.

Not much incentive to work.

 

[eevee-fan]

No problem. There are 209 million adults in the US so that times $24,000 per year is only $5 trillion. Since this is more than what the average Social Security recipient gets I would expect they would prefer getting the $2,000 per month. If you back out the cost of SS ($1 trillion) you only need and additional $4 trillion. Including the free healthcare the total would be more than the total US budget of about $4.5 trillion per year. So total budget would be around $9 trillion. Since the total earnings in the US is about $11 trillion those working would get to take home a total of $2 trillion after taxes. I would expect that a lot of folks especially couples getting $48,000 per year would decide it's not worth working. Those left working would share the $2 trillion as additional take home pay. So if you assume 100 million continue to work they would average $20,000 more than those not working.

Not much incentive to work.

Yet we see well to do people still working... Case of a retired General working at the gold course as a caddy... sometimes, after your needs are all met, it's not really about having more money or power.

 

[nwdiver]

Not much incentive to work.

For the 2nd time; Why do you feel there needs to be such a forceful incentive to work? I personally know 2 people that stayed in a job they didn't want because they had family with severe 'pre-existing' medical conditions and needed the healthcare their jobs provided. Needing to keep a job or a family member would die is more than a little barbaric IMHO.

 

[mspohr]

Work in an invention of capitalism. A modern form of slavery. Capitalists need to keep people working so they can make profits. The actual amount of work necessary for survival is very little time. The rest of the work is the result of artificial scarcity and needs created by the capitalists.
I personally am very happily retired and I don't work. Everybody could be in this same situation.
FALC

Fully automated luxury communism

Fully automated luxury communism

 

[mspohr]

COVID-19 Could Spark A Renewable Energy Boom | OilPrice.com

Facing the worst downturn since the Great Depression, governments are passing once unthinkable pieces of legislation, with price tags that boggle the mind. Still, they are still falling short, and more trillion-dollar fiscal packages are likely.

But simply rebuilding the old economy isn’t good enough, the Oxford report argues. First of all, it may not work. Shoveling tens of billions of dollars at the airline industry, for instance, will do little if nobody wants to fly for the foreseeable future.

More importantly, re-inflating old industries will lead to climate disaster. Given the scale of spending under consideration, then, there is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to “build back better,” the Oxford report argues. “The recovery packages can either kill these two birds with one stone – setting the global economy on a pathway towards net-zero emissions – or lock us into a fossil system from which it will be nearly impossible to escape,” they warned.

 

[mspohr]

James Howard Kunstler: Living in the Long Emergency - Resilience

Kunstler’s new book — Living in the Long Emergency: Global Crisis, the Failure of the Futurists, and the Early Adapters Who Are Showing Us the Way Forward — is once again spookily timed.

In this fascinating and wide-ranging discussion, Chuck and Jim look at the impact of the crisis on the automotive and airline industries, our food systems, and more. They discuss the social upheaval being caused by COVID-19, including the understandable anger from people who see the federal government bailing out Wall Street while their own jobs disappear. They talk too about the problems with the argument that COVID-19 will launch a suburban renaissance — “All the signs are that suburbia is not only going to fail, but it’s going to fail pretty quickly and pretty harshly” — but also with some urbanists’ reflexive defense of cities.

But this conversation is not just doom-and-gloom. Chuck and Jim also discuss how Living in the Long Emergency provides a ray of hope in dark days. Just in time, the book helps us understand what’s going on….and also how to create a healthy, vibrant, and enjoyable future.

 

[S'toon]

No problem. There are 209 million adults in the US so that times $24,000 per year is only $5 trillion. Since this is more than what the average Social Security recipient gets I would expect they would prefer getting the $2,000 per month. If you back out the cost of SS ($1 trillion) you only need and additional $4 trillion. Including the free healthcare the total would be more than the total US budget of about $4.5 trillion per year. So total budget would be around $9 trillion. Since the total earnings in the US is about $11 trillion those working would get to take home a total of $2 trillion after taxes. I would expect that a lot of folks especially couples getting $48,000 per year would decide it's not worth working. Those left working would share the $2 trillion as additional take home pay. So if you assume 100 million continue to work they would average $20,000 more than those not working.

Not much incentive to work.

Ah yes. Corporations can get trillions of dollars for nothing, with no accountability, rich people can get over a trillion dollars in tax cuts, but we can't afford to keep the roof over the head and bellies full of the working people.

Because only rich people, who just sit around the pool waiting for the dividend cheques to come in are hard working. The working class who have toiled harder than any rich person has in their entire life are actually lazy.

 

[mspohr]

 

[rays427]

Work in an invention of capitalism. A modern form of slavery. Capitalists need to keep people working so they can make profits. The actual amount of work necessary for survival is very little time. The rest of the work is the result of artificial scarcity and needs created by the capitalists.
I personally am very happily retired and I don't work. Everybody could be in this same situation.
FALC

Fully automated luxury communism

Fully automated luxury communism

You know that even under communism folks were required to work? I lived in Russia for a couple of years (96-98) and the Russian's told me that under communism they only pretended to work because the government pretended to pay them. They may not have worked hard but they did have to put in the required hours. The current average pay in Russia is around $10,000 per year. I agree if all you want is enough to survive you don't need to work much. Homeless folks prove this. However, I think most of us want more than just surviving.

 

[rays427]

For the 2nd time; Why do you feel there needs to be such a forceful incentive to work? I personally know 2 people that stayed in a job they didn't want because they had family with severe 'pre-existing' medical conditions and needed the healthcare their jobs provided. Needing to keep a job or a family member would die is more than a little barbaric IMHO.

I agree that healthcare shouldn't be tied to jobs. I assume you know how that came about. It was because our government's 1942 Stabilization Act which froze pay so companies added healthcare to attract and maintain employees. I don't think giving money to folks that are unwilling to work is a good idea.

 

[nwdiver]

I agree that healthcare shouldn't be tied to jobs. I assume you know how that came about. It was because our government's 1942 Stabilization Act which froze pay so companies added healthcare to attract and maintain employees. I don't think giving money to folks that are unwilling to work is a good idea.

So how do we provide for healthcare? When the per capita cost of healthcare is $14k and the average income is $30k do you expect insurance companies to operate at a loss or people to pay ~50% of their income in premiums? What if you make <$30? Healthcare simply cannot function in a market system same a police and fire. That's not how it works....

What about people unable to find work through no fault of their own? Should they be forced into unfulfilling and unnecessary work to make people like you feel better ideologically?

 

[S'toon]

I agree that healthcare shouldn't be tied to jobs. I assume you know how that came about. It was because our government's 1942 Stabilization Act which froze pay so companies added healthcare to attract and maintain employees. I don't think giving money to folks that are unwilling to work is a good idea.

Where did this myth that people are lazy, and unwilling to work?

...except for those rich people who are working hard sitting around the pool waiting for the dividend cheques to come in. That's really hard work. Harder work than those working poor people do.

 

[nwdiver]

Where did this myth that people are lazy, and unwilling to work?

...except for those rich people who are working hard sitting around the pool waiting for the dividend cheques to come in. That's really hard work. Harder work than those working poor people do.

HEY! Those rich people worked hard to be born into a wealthy family!

 

[Chopr147]

I am a true believer in the Green New Deal. I believe that it is the ONLY way forward out of this mess.
It addresses the environmental, social, and economic disasters that we face.
There is no going back to "normal". "Normal" was the problem that destroyed the environment, society and created the vast income inequality which is causing so much pain.

If you want the Green New Deal, you got it! Few drivers, few flights, no cruises, very little travel. Stay at home and save the world. Or just be bored until eternity

 

[JRP3]

I'm not the least bit bored, haven't had a job in years. Doesn't mean I sit around doing nothing. My UBI comes from stocks, I didn't really "earn" it.

 

[mspohr]

If you want the Green New Deal, you got it! Few drivers, few flights, no cruises, very little travel. Stay at home and save the world. Or just be bored until eternity

I'm retired, living off the government dole and free health insurance. This is the good life. Spend lots of time with family, recreation and "projects". Haven't ever been bored. I refuse to get a job. Everyone should be able to have this kind of life.