Grill Me!

[James Anders]

Drag is weirder than you think it is. That section is almost certainly good for the Cd.

-- Remember that the ideal shape for Cd looks roughly like a teardrop, or the Aptera.
-- Now, remember that there *will* be a flat, rectangular license plate at the front of the car, in the middle.
-- Then remember that the extended hood is being used for crash safety, so the hood has to be more horizontal than the windshield, so there's going to be an unpleasant obstruction in the airflow where the windshield wipers are
-- so you probably want to send the air to the sides of the car, not up...

As for the scofflaws who feel that license plate laws don't apply to them... well, if I encountered your car, I'd report you to the police. If I had a license plate number to report! It's amazing how some people think. If you don't want a license plate, keep your car off the public road and leave it at the track.

Neroden,

I'm an engineer. I have done air flow simulation studies. Drag is straightforward. Complex airflow can be weird, but that flat blunt nose is fairly simple and predictable.

Now remember there will *not* always be a flat, rectangular license plate in the front of the car. 19 states (and hopefully more soon) do not require front plates. No reason at all to burden a sizable percentage of cars with more drag.

Your comments on the extended hood and crash safety, etc, don't really apply to the blunt or more rounded front choice. Putting a large flat surface on the front of the car, in hopes that drag will be reduced by sending the air around the sides is not viable. If you wanted to divert air to the sides, it still could be done with a more rounded front and be done so more cleanly. Any air directly hitting the blunt surface (which by the way, is nearly perpendicular to the direction of travel) will just stall, create turbulence and eventually go somewhere in an uncontrolled direction. The best way to indeed coax the air around the sides would be to have a rounded front that coerced the air in a certain direction.

Respectfully,
Jim Anders

PS: Anyone can experience the effect of a blunt surface on drag by simply holding out your hand through the car window when driving. Rotate your hand at various angles and feel the difference.

 

[James Anders]

I vote for no "make believe grille", so let's move on to solving the sculpture. The front end has always been an important aspect of an automobile's design statement and It is important to get it right. The as presented nose is certainly lacking in flair, especially compared with the rest of the design. Recent renders showing an integrated continuous line will be the answer if the line will reads gracefully at all angles of view. I think all that is needed is "tweaking" not major surgery. Although I don't know what that lump is hiding under there.

The make believe grilles are mostly humorous. I don't think anyone seriously wants a fake grille. The main issue is the shape of the front and whether it should be more rounded or blunt.

-J

 

[arjay]

Primarily it needs to be artful and graceful.

 

[neroden]

I haven't actually seen the car in person, but from the photos and videos, it appears that the front *is* curved to push the air to the sides. There's a fairly small flattened section in the middle, about right to fit either a US or Euro plate.

Most of the dopey alternative proposals have made it more curved *vertically*, which is no good, it's not gonna happen, it will be bad for Cd. Making it more curved horizontally works up to a point -- sure, go ahead and do that -- but that point is where you reach the spot where the plate is mounted, which needs to be flat.

And there will be fewer and fewer states allowing you to go without a front plate as time goes on. Automated enforcement cameras like front plates.

 

[TWOutlander]

I like both posts by S3XY and Mihai but I think Tesla will go with something similar to the Model X presented by S3XY. The nose of a car is an important part of branding a manufacturer. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Etc. all have created strong brand identity and every model has a theme that is present in the nose of every car. I think Tesla is searching for that Nose identity that will brand their cars. The Model S nose was put in place because consumers still needed their grill when the S was first released, but I think the Model X nose was their first attempt to create a nose piece that could be used throughout all their models. I think both the Model 3 and Model S move in that direction and it would look great on the 3.

I might be dead wrong, but I find it hard to believe that Tesla would stick with a blank nose simply from a branding stand point.

I agree with that and will make a suggestion

I really like the design of the Model 3, but the front looks unfinished (the lights are nice though). It looks better with the suggestions of making it look more like a Porsche, but that is a Porsche look. Tesla should use the opportunity to make something different.

I think Tesla could use a T shaped front, first because of its name and logo. Second, Im not a aerodynamics expert, but to me a T shape should have a better Cd, flowing the air to the sides. I have no photoshop skills to make a T shaped Model 3, but i have found a image that can help show it (its too "sporty" in this concept car, but you can get the idea):

This is a bigger change, so what you guys think? Too fancy? I am so curious to see how the Model 3 would look with something similar

 

[voyager]

Neroden,
I'm an engineer. I have done air flow simulation studies. Drag is straightforward. Complex airflow can be weird, but that flat blunt nose is fairly simple and predictable.

Any air directly hitting the blunt surface (which by the way, is nearly perpendicular to the direction of travel) will just stall, create turbulence and eventually go somewhere in an uncontrolled direction. The best way to indeed coax the air around the sides would be to have a rounded front that coerced the air in a certain direction.

Respectfully,
Jim Anders

PS: Anyone can experience the effect of a blunt surface on drag by simply holding out your hand through the car window when driving. Rotate your hand at various angles and feel the difference.

Have you any idea how this front end will deal with drag?..

 

[RayLast]

really like this ALOT

It looks nice (and awesome Photoshop) but I feel it loses the "Tesla" look. The pointed front looks too much like a 2005 Corvette IMO.

 

[cmathews]

Here's my take. No faux grill and lower the hood between the fenders.

 

[James Anders]

It looks nice (and awesome Photoshop) but I feel it loses the "Tesla" look. The pointed front looks too much like a 2005 Corvette IMO.

I think the headlights look more like a 2016 Corvette. But the Corvette has a much more angled prow. Looking down from the top the Corvette would have a pronounced v-shape to the front. That's not necessary here with Model 3, IMO.

 

[eye.surgeon]

If you miss having a grille why not really get back to basics...

It makes about as much sense as a fake grille.

 

[Topher]

Here's my take. No faux grill and lower the hood between the fenders. View attachment 171234

That's just a smirk...

Thank you kindly.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Uh, Tesla just announced what is by all accounts a revolutionary, disruptive, game changing car. And we're not happy with the unconventional grill? I invite readers to peruse the archives of the Model S forum from 4 or 5 years ago regarding the then yet to be released Model S. Complaints aplenty. All rather personal and generally petty. And, among the biggest complaints was the grill/nose cone. Now, I'm sure some still aren't happy with the Model S nose cone. But, I would guess many have come to realize it is part of the car and the car is beautiful. Tesla makes what many consider the world's greatest car. It doesn't need air flowing through a radiator. It does benefit from maximizing aerodynamics. Beautiful form and high function. I accept that some may not like the front of the Model 3 but please recognize that it is in total a beautiful piece of art that has a great deal of utility built into the design.

The front end keeps it from being a beautiful piece of art IMO but I'm getting one since there's so much I expect to love about the model 3. I don't need a front-end redesign to appreciate the car. Please recognize that "please recognize" is condescending.

 

[InsanityFW]

There seems to be some dislike of the front end of the Model 3. So I'm starting this thread to have people post their ideas on how to improve it. Okay, so maybe not a grill per se but whatever you might think it needs. I'd even be open to humor so have at it! Here's my idea. I think it makes a huge difference and it fits right in with the rest of the family, especially the Model X.

View attachment 170214

I'm assuming that is is the design Tesla will use based on the refresh S and Model X noses, so you nailed it.

 

[InsanityFW]

I'll take the "snub-nose" over the current whale-shark design craziness

 

[arjay]

No grille please!

 

[James Anders]

No grille please!

I haven't read anyone pushing for a grille on the front of the Model 3.

The only issue is the shape of the center blunt area which seems out of place. It's that large vertical expanse that looks odd. On the X and now the S, that vertical blunt surface doesn't seem as pronounced. Of those two, the S looks better because the front isn't as tall as the X.

Fixing the face of the Tesla Model 3

 

[linkster]

I'll take the "snub-nose" over the current whale-shark design craziness

No doubt, the folks over at Lexus have lost their minds!

 

[Fred Thompson]

Have you any idea how this front end will deal with drag?..

I like this slight modification of the front bumper. I do not like the grill on the new model S because it looks like it would be easy to damage the grill with a slight blow to the front bumper. I would like to see Tesla come up with a design for a front license plate bracket that will complement the front bumper for those states that require a front license plate. Maybe they could have a bracket that folds up and matches the bumper color and material. Make it so you can take the bracket off without holes remaining in the bumper when the front plate is no longer needed.

 

[arjay]

Just to be clear...I include the mustache in the grille category. Unneeded.

 

[GBleck]

Has anyone thought about the front end from a sensor integration standpoint? Could be designed for through hull ultrasonic or radar sensor use. Also the crease height may be for safety and frunk size optimization reasons.