"Guilt" for being able to get a Model S?!

[KenEE]

I think the battery AND charging port will be easy to change if the S sells well. By that I mean its just the recepticle which would be easy for an enterprising 3rd party company to retrofit with the latest. (We know the pack itself is designed to be easy to change)

Basically, as long as the potential customer base is large enough there will be companies selling battery/charging upgrades.

Anyway, back to the OT: I don't feel guilty. I think the world is a better place with more well to do customers and employers. However, with the recent focus on economic equality, I fear backlash whenever I make a visible purchase of an expensive item or service.

 

[VolkerP]

Don't hold back VP, tell us how you really feel. :smile:

I will be outdated by 2020 too, so no problem running an outdated car! :biggrin:

 

[dmckinstry]

I will be outdated by 2020 too, so no problem running an outdated car! :biggrin:

Ditto!

 

[DaveVa]

Folks, I've got this awkward feeling of late: a sense of "guilt" when talking to my coworkers, friends (offline and online) and neighbors about my upcoming Model S delivery sometime this year!

It's unfortunate, but today, people feel like they should applogize for success. Once upon a time people were proud of success. This mindset has in many ways depressed the economy as a whole - people with money don't spend for fear of looking like they have too much. Spending by those with disposable income creates jobs - shaming people with money to live more "modestly" has basically increased the amount of cash held by the wealthy at the expense of those in the service and manufacturing industry.

I am proud to be buying a Tesla and often talk about the fact that the company is actually manufacturing in the U.S. - not just doing final assembly.

I am am not in the "ultra rich" category - I do well, but have to keep working for a living, the thrust today for all to have financial "parity" frustrates me...

Will step down from my soap box now ;-)

 

[ElSupreme]

It's unfortunate, but today, people feel like they should applogize for success. Once upon a time people were proud of success. This mindset has in many ways depressed the economy as a whole - people with money don't spend for fear of looking like they have too much. Spending by those with disposable income creates jobs - shaming people with money to live more "modestly" has basically increased the amount of cash held by the wealthy at the expense of those in the service and manufacturing industry.

I am proud to be buying a Tesla and often talk about the fact that the company is actually manufacturing in the U.S. - not just doing final assembly.

I am am not in the "ultra rich" category - I do well, but have to keep working for a living, the thrust today for all to have financial "parity" frustrates me...

Will step down from my soap box now ;-)

Well that makes me feel a lot better about buying a Model S. And well better about doing well financially personally. But I will always have a problem with conspicuous consumption, especially with luxury goods. I really don't see the Model S as conspicuous consumption, or really a luxury good. It is the only electric car that meets my size, and range requirements.

I would buy a Porsche 911 with no qualms, because that is the car I have always wanted, and still do. I really should put the Model S in that category also.

 

[ckessel]

No more guilt than the general guilt I feel for the unfairness of society. A Model S is a pretty frivolous purchase relative to my need and there's a lot of good I could do with the money even within my own family (helping a relative go to college for instance). Down that road lies madness, but it's always worth keeping some perspective on how unimportant my Model S purchase is regardless of my emotional level of "want".

 

[PV4EV]

LOL! I still have that disc. I remember when I bought my DTS system back when it was bleeding edge and that is the DVD I used to demo it. Ahhh, thanks for the memories... I think I'll fire it up this evening

I did just that last night. Its as impressive now as it was back then.

I ended up enjoying the rest of the DVD, with massive Gin n Tonic, whilst contemplating the possible future guilt of owning a Roadster (that I dont want to sell) ... and having a Model X on the drive also. Hmmm ...

 

[dhrivnak]

I would buy a Porsche 911 with no qualms, because that is the car I have always wanted, and still do. I really should put the Model S in that category also.

Have you tried driving a Roadster? You will likely rethink the Porsche.

But to get back on topic I really stretched to purchase my used Roadster and even at a good used price it is 3xa the cost of my second most expensive car. I was worried about conspicuous consumption but the vast majority of people seem good with it and I have received many favorable comments . The favorable ones outnumber the snide ones a good 20 to 1.

 

[ElSupreme]

Have you tried driving a Roadster? You will likely rethink the Porsche.

But to get back on topic I really stretched to purchase my used Roadster and even at a good used price it is 3xa the cost of my second most expensive car. I was worried about conspicuous consumption but the vast majority of people seem good with it and I have received many favorable comments . The favorable ones outnumber the snide ones a good 20 to 1.

I would put the roadster in the same bucket as the 911. Sadly they have and still are way out of my price range. I couldn't stretch a base 911 (~$82k) unless I sold my house, sold my car, moved into a small apartment, got rid of the Fiancee, and didn't take a vacation. And the Porsche would get ~18k miles a year on it. I would save $400 fuel cost a month with the roadster over the 911 so its the same effective price. I don't think either of my banks would loan me any money for either car though.

The Model S on the other hand saves me $300 a month in fuel (over my GTI) and at 62k purchase price my bank can be convinced to loan me the money. I think over 5 years it will cost me about the same as an Impreza WRX STI. But it will be nicer, quieter, and bigger.

And as a hidden bonus, I can't be convinced to drive 850 miles to Houston ever again.

EDIT: And sadly no I have never driven a roadster.

 

[strider]

It's unfortunate, but today, people feel like they should applogize for success. Once upon a time people were proud of success. This mindset has in many ways depressed the economy as a whole - people with money don't spend for fear of looking like they have too much. Spending by those with disposable income creates jobs - shaming people with money to live more "modestly" has basically increased the amount of cash held by the wealthy at the expense of those in the service and manufacturing industry.

But the problem is that over the last few decades, most of this "success" has been because of an ability to manipulate the political system for economic gain. Real wages for workers have been flat for 30 years while productivity has steadily risen. This has meant more profits for the wealthy. Then they are able to manipulate the tax code for their own benefit (15% cap gains rate, carried interest, etc) and further consolidate their wealth. I'm a 2%'er so I'm not poor by any stretch but I pay ~43% on my income in taxes (state and fed income tax only - doesn't even count sales tax, vehicle taxes, etc).

We have this myth in this country that if you work hard you'll get ahead but those days are gone. The rich should feel ashamed because almost none of them made their money fairly. Trickle-down is a complete and utter farce. The other problem is that the rich don't spend their money here. Like Perkins having his yacht built in Turkey. Service jobs don't pay a living wage. Anyway, I'm on a rant now... I'll just go back and sit in my corner.

 

[howabout2]

The Tesla plug really is like Atari bringing a follow-up for the 520ST in 1986 with a 4" floppy drive with frickin' 3MB capacity!

Not much to add, but I appreciated the ST reference. 'Course the discs were formatted with that one tiny difference that made them unreadable on PCs (but not vice-versa).

 

[AnOutsider]

We have this myth in this country that if you work hard you'll get ahead but those days are gone. The rich should feel ashamed because almost none of them made their money fairly. Trickle-down is a complete and utter farce. The other problem is that the rich don't spend their money here. Like Perkins having his yacht built in Turkey. Service jobs don't pay a living wage. Anyway, I'm on a rant now... I'll just go back and sit in my corner.

Baffled... You mean everyone with money in this country did something shady to get there?

 

[brianman]

You lost me at "We have this myth..." with no backing evidence.

Snide counter: "We have this myth that we have this myth..."

 

[Soflauthor]

But the problem is that over the last few decades, most of this "success" has been because of an ability to manipulate the political system for economic gain. Real wages for workers have been flat for 30 years while productivity has steadily risen. This has meant more profits for the wealthy. Then they are able to manipulate the tax code for their own benefit (15% cap gains rate, carried interest, etc) and further consolidate their wealth. I'm a 2%'er so I'm not poor by any stretch but I pay ~43% on my income in taxes (state and fed income tax only - doesn't even count sales tax, vehicle taxes, etc).

We have this myth in this country that if you work hard you'll get ahead but those days are gone. The rich should feel ashamed because almost none of them made their money fairly. Trickle-down is a complete and utter farce. The other problem is that the rich don't spend their money here. Like Perkins having his yacht built in Turkey. Service jobs don't pay a living wage. Anyway, I'm on a rant now... I'll just go back and sit in my corner.

Since you've chosen to turn this into a political discussion, I think it's only fair that someone should respond. You're absolutely wrong when you state "We have this myth in this country that if you work hard you'll get ahead but those days are gone. " In fact, you're delusional. It appears that you've been listening to our President, who seems to have the same point of view.

I and many people I know (1) came from blue collar families; (2) had parents who never went beyond high school, (3) attended run-down public schools; (4) paid our own way through public universities by working menial jobs; (5) worked in corporate America, and (6) then had the courage to start our own businesses. We worked 80+ hours per week building a business and providing goods/services that people wanted. No government bailouts if we failed. I know that's true because I and millions of other Americans lived it.

The same opportunity I had exists today, and young people will seize it.

I will never feel ashamed for working very hard, for paying copious taxes over the years, for creating jobs and for rewarding myself now and then. People like you think the economy is a zero-sum game. It isn't, and presenting it as such is dishonest in the extreme. Sad.

 

[Doug_G]

Since you've chosen to turn this into a political discussion

I though this was supposed to be the Self Help Section. Politics is two shelves over.

 

[dsm363]

I think this thread has run its course. It really is more of an off topic subject anyway.

 

[strider]

I and many people I know (1) came from blue collar families; (2) had parents who never went beyond high school, (3) attended run-down public schools; (4) paid our own way through public universities by working menial jobs; (5) worked in corporate America, and (6) then had the courage to start our own businesses. We worked 80+ hours per week building a business and providing goods/services that people wanted. No government bailouts if we failed. I know that's true because I and millions of other Americans lived it.

The same opportunity I had exists today, and young people will seize it.

First of all, if you're posting on the Tesla board I'm not talking about you. You're not "rich" for the purposes of my post and unless you have lobbyists and contribute vast amounts of money to political campaigns you have nothing to be ashamed of.

As for your talk of "opportunity", I don't know how old you are but no matter - you're too old to see the change that has occurred. I don't doubt your American Dream story. The problem is that you are simply extrapolating your experience to younger generations when those things just don't hold true anymore. The amount of debt in the system (public and private) simply negates the possibility of us growing like we have for the last 70 years. It's just not going to happen.

Like you, I worked my way through public university but back then it cost ~$7,000/year. It now costs over $32,000/year to go to a public university (in California - yes it's cheaper in other parts of the country but regardless, costs have far outpaced inflation in the last few years) and the costs are rocketing up every year (tripled in the last 7 years). You think a kid can make that mowing lawns or working in a restaurant? Not a chance. Kids are coming out of school with huge debt loads. And then they try to move into the workforce and there are no jobs - unemployment among young people is off the charts. It's not that they're lazy, they can't get jobs because older workers can't afford to retire. I see it in my current job when I have a junior position open up I get resumes from senior people that just want a job even though it's for half what they used to be paid. Kids today have it a LOT tougher than you or I did.

Anyway, my point is that the super-rich (again, not anyone posting here) have gamed the system so that it is extremely hard for anyone to move up into that realm. The tax issue I raised is Exhibit A - the last people who need lower taxes are the super rich yet that is how the country is set up. Those of us below the super-rich pay twice as much in taxes as they do so that limits our ability to move up (For the record I'm a flat-tax advocate - everyone pays x% of every dollar you make, no deductions). If you can't see that the deck is stacked against you then all I can say is ignorance is bliss.

 

[Lyon]

I'm 30, most of my friends are hard working individuals who have no problem taking care of themselves and are not interested in a hand out. The other thing that they have in common is more debt than they will be able to pay off anytime soon. I'm talking about school loans here not big houses and nice cars. They've put off starting families so that they can get through some kind of post graduate or professional training.

Anyone who believes that the American Dream of 50 years ago is alive and well is delusional. College graduates enter the working world with poor prospects for employment and with tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt.

I don't mean to say that NO ONE can do it today, but it's the exception to the rule.

 

[VolkerP]

I though this was supposed to be the Self Help Section. Politics is two shelves over.

Asking the "guilt" question is a check if your personal actions can be aligned with general society and political views. I see a strong link here.

 

[AnOutsider]

As for your talk of "opportunity", I don't know how old you are but no matter - you're too old to see the change that has occurred. I don't doubt your American Dream story. The problem is that you are simply extrapolating your experience to younger generations when those things just don't hold true anymore. The amount of debt in the system (public and private) simply negates the possibility of us growing like we have for the last 70 years. It's just not going to happen.

Like you, I worked my way through public university but back then it cost ~$7,000/year. It now costs over $32,000/year to go to a public university (in California - yes it's cheaper in other parts of the country but regardless, costs have far outpaced inflation in the last few years) and the costs are rocketing up every year (tripled in the last 7 years). You think a kid can make that mowing lawns or working in a restaurant? Not a chance. Kids are coming out of school with huge debt loads. And then they try to move into the workforce and there are no jobs - unemployment among young people is off the charts. It's not that they're lazy, they can't get jobs because older workers can't afford to retire. I see it in my current job when I have a junior position open up I get resumes from senior people that just want a job even though it's for half what they used to be paid. Kids today have it a LOT tougher than you or I did.

I'm 27, went to community college for a semester then went right to work. A year later started freelancing then started my own biz. Opportunities are still out there, and the Internet generation has it even better in my opinion. There's access to information that previous generations had to pay handsomely for. It's even easier to be an entrepreneur in many fields.

I will agree with you only to the extent that I think Americans have gotten lazier (and seemingly dumber - but maybe that's just because "reality tv" has exposed more of it), and that may be what's stopping some from moving forward. I don't see a lot of entrepreneurial drive from those around my age. I see a lot of "damn, this sucks" when they have to go to work and lots of searching for the quick and easy way out.