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Help me decide Stealth vs P3D+
- Thread starter Joabe
- Start date
This is not true. The VIN is a performance VIN they are performance model cars without the mentioned parts. The 8th digit denotes the performance model and on the stealth and performance they are the same (dual motor performance model)
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
What "is right now" is exactly the same as it was in the past on the P3D- vs P3D+
the drive units (motors and inverters) are exactly the same on both cars. And always have been.
The only car that has changed is the NON P AWD. Which now has a different rear drive unit.
Not sure where, specifically, you're still confused about these facts.
Well... you are anyway
Again- the non-P AWD was the same, but no longer is. This didn't impact the P3D- at all, which remained the same as before.
So the only folks who could get such a software unlock with be the non-P AWD owners from before the change.
(this is a point in favor of Tesla eventually offering this unlock for money- since it wouldn't exist for "new" LR-AWD cars offering it wouldn't cannibalize new P sales of either type.)
That said- when they were the same numerous LR AWD folks did get the car software unlocked to a P.
That's pretty much what all the P3D- buyers concluded too
It was such an obvious conclusion Tesla killed the P3D- entirely for a while to force people into the maybe less desirable but higher margin P3D+
Even today the average buyer going to Tesla.com to order is forced into the upcharge for the items you list (plus the pedals and spoiler of course!)
Only folks made aware through other channels that P3D- cars are sometimes available via inventory purchase get the better bang for the buck version with, again, the exact same inverters and motors as the + gets.
FWIW, this is a very recent change...
The "C" to designate performance (+ or -) was only added to the 2020 NHTSA VIN decoder key by Tesla a few months ago....prior to that the only characters designated for that 8th slot were A for single motor and B for dual motor (covering AWD, P3D-, and P3D+)
Once again I actually talked to people at Tesla - the P3D- was more of an accident based on production factors than a hidden special option. I am sure everyone that has one is happy. I am still confused why everyone is so hyper sensitive on this topic. I have said and will always say the Rear Wheel LR is probably the best variant out of the whole lineup.
I have a P3D (Stealth) Got it in Sept 2018 and love it. The reason I choose the P3D was because of being worried about bayarea pot holes it can damage the wheel easily that is the reason I wanted to get the 18 inch but performance if that was not the option I would have choose the P3D+ since I wanted the performance anyways.
Anyhow I do miss the Red Brake caliper however I know I can get it painted or powder coated from shops too.. so not a biggie
P3D+ Have a larger brake pad though so do consider if you are looking for that However I think for me brake is sufficient is just the looks of the calipers
Anyhow I do miss the Red Brake caliper however I know I can get it painted or powder coated from shops too.. so not a biggie
P3D+ Have a larger brake pad though so do consider if you are looking for that However I think for me brake is sufficient is just the looks of the calipers
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
You haven't mastered the complex art of replying to people in forums, how to spell Dual, or what you're even calling the car (PD3-? P3D-?) and you expect me to think you've got insider knowledge at Tesla?
Color me extremely skeptical.
Lots of opinions here, which are mostly right. I have orders of all 3 variants of the AWD-based cars in my account (dont ask me why). All info here is collected mostly from Nordic market, but similar EU-wide as well. Here are facts:
NAMING
* Standard AWD car appears as Long Range AWD. Both higher-powered 3.4s cars appear as Performance - Long Range AWD, on inventory and on order invoice.
* Only other explicit reference to car without the red calipers & 20" is in the document about tow hitch, where it is called Base Performance
VIN
* Up until recently, 8th position of all VIN number were either A (single motor) or B (dual motor). Thus all 3 variants of the AWD were birthed as "B". All of the listed used cars conform to this convention.
* At the moment, all new Performance vehicles with the upgrade package VIN'ed C. There are no Base Performance available to check.
OPTIONS
* Tesla website only allows the Performance - Long Range AWD w/ the Performance upgrade pack to be configured with 20" winter wheels. Don't know whether other sizes are listed in the conformance certificates, but EU authorities are sticklers on aftermarket fitments, so OEM does not (apparently) allow 19" fitment.
* Above cars cannot be equipped with tow hitch. It also says so in aforementioned tow hitch FAQ. Base Performance cars can have tow hitch with 500kg limit. Standard AWD car has 910kg limit.
So now to personal opinion, I also think the Base Performance is the pick of the lot. It's not that I need the added acceleration, but there's no downside to that potential as pricing here is identical to AWD! (Yep, that's right).
And it's not that I mind paying for the Performance package -- I might actually end up with one -- but I am particularly aggrieved at being forced into paying double for 20" winters, which in itself is undesirable in every way. And I cant even tow bikes, skis, or trailers with it! Single-vehicle households are common in EU, and people use a standard sedans and hatchbacks with trailers to haul big hardware, furniture, etc. Unused upside (higher spec brakes) with more downside (less comfort, no hauling capabilities, limited tire selection, etc).
NAMING
* Standard AWD car appears as Long Range AWD. Both higher-powered 3.4s cars appear as Performance - Long Range AWD, on inventory and on order invoice.
* Only other explicit reference to car without the red calipers & 20" is in the document about tow hitch, where it is called Base Performance
VIN
* Up until recently, 8th position of all VIN number were either A (single motor) or B (dual motor). Thus all 3 variants of the AWD were birthed as "B". All of the listed used cars conform to this convention.
* At the moment, all new Performance vehicles with the upgrade package VIN'ed C. There are no Base Performance available to check.
OPTIONS
* Tesla website only allows the Performance - Long Range AWD w/ the Performance upgrade pack to be configured with 20" winter wheels. Don't know whether other sizes are listed in the conformance certificates, but EU authorities are sticklers on aftermarket fitments, so OEM does not (apparently) allow 19" fitment.
* Above cars cannot be equipped with tow hitch. It also says so in aforementioned tow hitch FAQ. Base Performance cars can have tow hitch with 500kg limit. Standard AWD car has 910kg limit.
So now to personal opinion, I also think the Base Performance is the pick of the lot. It's not that I need the added acceleration, but there's no downside to that potential as pricing here is identical to AWD! (Yep, that's right).
And it's not that I mind paying for the Performance package -- I might actually end up with one -- but I am particularly aggrieved at being forced into paying double for 20" winters, which in itself is undesirable in every way. And I cant even tow bikes, skis, or trailers with it! Single-vehicle households are common in EU, and people use a standard sedans and hatchbacks with trailers to haul big hardware, furniture, etc. Unused upside (higher spec brakes) with more downside (less comfort, no hauling capabilities, limited tire selection, etc).
I would take the stealth in a heartbeat, but they don't sell those in Europe. I got the P3D+ because I don't have any alternatives. I am considering getting some 18" rims myself and put them on the car when I get it, because 20" winter costs a ludicrous amount to replace. It's not just the up-front cost.
Sidenote, how often do people drive in potholes big enough to hurt the rims? I've had my license for 15 years, haven't happened to me yet. Norwegian roads are not particularly awesome.
Sidenote, how often do people drive in potholes big enough to hurt the rims? I've had my license for 15 years, haven't happened to me yet. Norwegian roads are not particularly awesome.
manddarran
Member
I used to criss-cross 2 countries regularly, with awesome roads on home one, but shitty roads on neighboring one.
Never significantly damaged my wheels (19s" tired 225/35 and 245/30), but it marred the rims a few time.
But more than that, wife wasnt happy with comfort of the low sidewalls going over joints, bumps.
Also less tire protection against low curbs, turning tight corners, etc etc.
I don't drive much in severe winter, but have additional concerns against hidden curbs and such masked by deep snow.
yeap, at this moment its a false dilemma since getting that car is just luck-of-the-draw.
between awd and performance, i might settle for what they can deliver first.
My apologies, English is not my mother tongue. Insider knowledge, not really not anymore, the person I knew left a few months ago. I am not on here to convince anyone of anything, everyone has their own opinion. Based on what I have received from people that I actually know, I based my decision to buy the Performance with the Performance package even though I could have purchased a Basic Performance variant. I believe this conversation has evolved into people saying they have the best car and personal attacks about knowledge. I stated what I know and for what it’s worth which is the point of a forum. Choose to dismiss me if you wish, since I made the mistake if contributing second hand knowledge. But it appears it is far more than anyone else has. I have avoided this conversation since I didn’t want to repeat anything I was told, and clearly should have continued avoiding it since there are so many experts on here.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
None of whom appear to have provided you with accurate information though. A fact you refuse to accept.
...what?
When it was introduced it wasn't "hidden" at all. And certainly no accident.
It was in fact the default performance vehicle of the Model 3 lineup at that point.
Here's the basic order of events starting back in ~July 2018:
Tesla announced the Performance model (which had everything on it).
People complained it was stupid expensive and they wished they could get it without the boat anchor 20" wheels that added weight but not tire width and so on.
Tesla responded changing the BASE Performance Model 3 to one WITHOUT the wheels/brakes or a couple other largely cosmetic items.
At that point the default P, orderable online, was the P3D-
The P3D+ was called that by folks here because it required you ADDING AN OPTION PACKAGE to the default P for an extra $5000.
That $5000 package added the spoiler, sport pedals, 20" boat anchor wheels, a 0.39 inch suspension drop, and the larger brakes (and also meant you had a lot less options for aftermarket wheels as a result)
Months later Tesla changed their offerings to make that option package standard (basically forcing it on everyone, but no longer charging any money for it), and discontinued the base (now called P3D- by many here since it's the P3D minus the option package).
Folks were pissed about how Tesla was now giving it $5000 package to people for free- so Tesla was eventually forced to offer $5000 refund checks to every previous P buyer (regardless of it they actually got the 5k package or not when they bought the car- and in exchange for them giving up the free lifetime supercharging early P buyers were originally given)
P3D- stayed gone for many months after... but now suddenly is showing up as inventory cars (not orderable online) and have been for some months.
As before the car continues to offer exactly the same drive units (motors and inverters) and the same batteries as the P3D+ does... same differences as before when both were orderable online.
These facts about the parts you "heard" were not the same but actually are the same continue to be confirmed by Teslas own parts catalog, and actual owners of the various configs confirming the part numbers on the drive units on their delivered vehicles.
Most of what you said is exactly correct. Things have changed in mid 2019 chose to not believe it. I never disputed that the early LR and Basic Performance models were all the same, but the P we also very expensive. The software unlock people are right it could have been down then. If LR and P were still the same they would software unlock them at the dealer and add a red line. Everyone is an expert and Tesla has release all part #s - those are the facts we are dealing with.
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