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Already many US roadsters in Europe.
As far as I know there already are quite a few US spec roadsters in Europe. There are a few in Norway, and even the one I drove in The Netherlands was a US spec roadster (which most certainly was being charged with a EU power supply).
Homologation of a US spec roadster in The Netherlands is not *that* complicated: AFAIK a change of headlights will do the job. But these rules do vary (hugely!) by country.
Does the charging system really differ? I'm pretty sure the car doesn't distinguish between EU and US electrons! In the worst case you'd need to reduce our 240V to 220V. But again, the Norwegians can tell you what's necessary.
Unfortunately the only way to see if Tesla may be compared with VW is to try. Looking at other cases I think Tesla must (and should want to!) service your car throughout the EU.
As far as I know there already are quite a few US spec roadsters in Europe. There are a few in Norway, and even the one I drove in The Netherlands was a US spec roadster (which most certainly was being charged with a EU power supply).
Homologation of a US spec roadster in The Netherlands is not *that* complicated: AFAIK a change of headlights will do the job. But these rules do vary (hugely!) by country.
Does the charging system really differ? I'm pretty sure the car doesn't distinguish between EU and US electrons! In the worst case you'd need to reduce our 240V to 220V. But again, the Norwegians can tell you what's necessary.
Unfortunately the only way to see if Tesla may be compared with VW is to try. Looking at other cases I think Tesla must (and should want to!) service your car throughout the EU.
In my opinion the costs (actual and projected) out weigh the benefits. I could do much more effective things with my time than fight about warranty service on a car that I was told not to export.
So, you can't import a product because the company doesn't want you to? Are you guys serious?
Someone is asking "how to" and you guys tell him "don't" because a manufacturer doesn't want their product in another market? My personal, humble opinion is that that alone is a good reason to do it. Seriously, that doesn't have anything to do with trying to make trouble but with making a decision about whether or not to by a product and where to buy it.
Of course Tesla Europe can (and should) charge for any service they have to do to the car (other than warranty) but refuse it?? Not a good idea!
Personally I can't imagine that there should be any problems with a US spec Roadster over here once the cosmetic changes (and maybe a software update) have been done. With the european charger I can't see charging being a problem either.
Someone is asking "how to" and you guys tell him "don't" because a manufacturer doesn't want their product in another market? My personal, humble opinion is that that alone is a good reason to do it. Seriously, that doesn't have anything to do with trying to make trouble but with making a decision about whether or not to by a product and where to buy it.
Of course Tesla Europe can (and should) charge for any service they have to do to the car (other than warranty) but refuse it?? Not a good idea!
Personally I can't imagine that there should be any problems with a US spec Roadster over here once the cosmetic changes (and maybe a software update) have been done. With the european charger I can't see charging being a problem either.
Thanks for the support RGB. :smile:
I think NEWDL (besides like sounding like the Tesla employee I was on the phone with) made some valid points regarding (outrageous?) effective costs involved which have to be considered as well. But there's a really straightforward solution to that: Hire a freight forwarder and you will be fine. There's dozens of freight companies who will import cars for you for a flat rate. So there's no "imaginary" costs involved like NEWDL was implying. Statements like that belong to the tooth fairy section.
Besides that, it's always the same thing with car imports: People try to scare you with fantasy stories about your potential private bankruptcy if you dare to import from the USA.
I experienced the very similar thing with BMW and Porsche imports from the USA: Every rep you talk to tells you fantasy stories and people you talk to tell you the same fantasy stories they heard from others simply because they're jealous because they're not smart enough to do it.
But I did, ended up paying 50% less for a BMW X5 and thought: hey, this was easy. Let's do it again.
As far as I'm concerned, the costs are very predictable:
- 1st hand Tesla Roadster with a low 5 figure milage: $55'000
- Freight company to handle shipping, paperwork, customs... basically everything it takes to get the car to your front door (100% hassle free guarantee): €650 (well worth it!)
- Container Shipping from the US East Coast to Rotterdam: €380 + €250 from Rotterdam to Switzerland by Truck (the freight company will charge you this extra)
- 4% Customs and 7.6% VAT for Switzerland
- $3000 Homologation costs (headlights, license plate, bulbs etc. by a US Imports specialist)
- To be on the safe side I add $2000 for inspection by the EMPA, but personally I think this will not be necessary.
- $1500 for a 3-year warranty contract with a Swiss car insurance (who needs the US warranty anyways? Drive your Roadster worry free for less than $50 a month)
- There's more costs involved like the Home Connector or Electrician, but these costs occur in the USA as well so I won't count them here.
Roughly this sums up to $68'000 or €45'000.
Compared to a new Tesla Roadster (incl. VAT) of €110'000 in Switzerland, I'd say this is a pretty damn sweet deal! :biggrin:
I will be importing myself a Porsche Panamera 4S from the USA for the €65k I save :biggrin:
As far as the service is concerned: I can have a very simple reason to own a US Roadster in Europe. Let's say I been living in the US for the past 2 years driving a Roadster. Now I need to move to Switzerland/Germany for whatever reason (job, family...) and I take my Roadster with me. I need a service and I go the the Tesla guys in Munich. I don't want any warranty to be honored (I have the 3-warranty-contract anyways
), I'll just pay cash for the service. Will they say: Thanks for dropping $100k with our company, but now go screw yourself, you US Roadster driving freak?I don't think so.
Are the rear turn signals / indicators on the US model red? I thought I saw that. Anyway, if so you'd need to source the orange LEDs (maybe the whole cluster) which would obviously have to be from Tesla themselves.
On the other hand, I can't see why people are getting worried about the charging side of things. If there are restrictions, they are totally artificial.
On the other hand, I can't see why people are getting worried about the charging side of things. If there are restrictions, they are totally artificial.
K3000.
I truly could give a ____ (insert favorite word here) less what you end up doing. I personally would not go through the headache.
I look at the Tesla as an amazing deal for the car as is. My time is worth more than the hassle.
Maybe it comes down to the value of time....
I don't waste mine.
I truly could give a ____ (insert favorite word here) less what you end up doing. I personally would not go through the headache.
I look at the Tesla as an amazing deal for the car as is. My time is worth more than the hassle.
Maybe it comes down to the value of time....
I don't waste mine.
The title of this thread says: help needed. If you can't help, why do you bother posting?
There's better ways to get rid of your frustration than forum posts. Even in Ohio. Feel free to proof your frustration to the other board members by adding another comment. Thanks.
OK let's keep these things civil, please.
It is obviously a personal circumstance thing. Some may have the resource to go and buy the car outright, for others it is not an option. That doesn't mean they want the car any less.
There is not exactly a large second hand market for the cars yet, especially in Europe. If importing a second hand vehicle from the US is possible for a little bit more hassle, so what? At that price I am tempted myself.
He's buying a second hand car, so it's not like Tesla US are losing out on a sale, and Tesla EU ultimately gets his cash for ongoing servicing. It would be silly not to support it.
I bought my last car directly from Germany. It was marginally more hassle for a 20% saving (inc transport and registration fees). I don't regret doing it a bit.
It is obviously a personal circumstance thing. Some may have the resource to go and buy the car outright, for others it is not an option. That doesn't mean they want the car any less.
There is not exactly a large second hand market for the cars yet, especially in Europe. If importing a second hand vehicle from the US is possible for a little bit more hassle, so what? At that price I am tempted myself.
He's buying a second hand car, so it's not like Tesla US are losing out on a sale, and Tesla EU ultimately gets his cash for ongoing servicing. It would be silly not to support it.
I bought my last car directly from Germany. It was marginally more hassle for a 20% saving (inc transport and registration fees). I don't regret doing it a bit.
Thanks for the support RGB. :smile:
I think NEWDL (besides like sounding like the Tesla employee I was on the phone with) made some valid points regarding (outrageous?) effective costs involved which have to be considered as well. But there's a really straightforward solution to that: Hire a freight forwarder and you will be fine. There's dozens of freight companies who will import cars for you for a flat rate. So there's no "imaginary" costs involved like NEWDL was implying. Statements like that belong to the tooth fairy section.
Besides that, it's always the same thing with car imports: People try to scare you with fantasy stories about your potential private bankruptcy if you dare to import from the USA.
I experienced the very similar thing with BMW and Porsche imports from the USA: Every rep you talk to tells you fantasy stories and people you talk to tell you the same fantasy stories they heard from others simply because they're jealous because they're not smart enough to do it.
But I did, ended up paying 50% less for a BMW X5 and thought: hey, this was easy. Let's do it again.
As far as I'm concerned, the costs are very predictable:
- 1st hand Tesla Roadster with a low 5 figure milage: $55'000
- Freight company to handle shipping, paperwork, customs... basically everything it takes to get the car to your front door (100% hassle free guarantee): €650 (well worth it!)
- Container Shipping from the US East Coast to Rotterdam: €380 + €250 from Rotterdam to Switzerland by Truck (the freight company will charge you this extra)
- 4% Customs and 7.6% VAT for Switzerland
- $3000 Homologation costs (headlights, license plate, bulbs etc. by a US Imports specialist)
- To be on the safe side I add $2000 for inspection by the EMPA, but personally I think this will not be necessary.
- $1500 for a 3-year warranty contract with a Swiss car insurance (who needs the US warranty anyways? Drive your Roadster worry free for less than $50 a month)
- There's more costs involved like the Home Connector or Electrician, but these costs occur in the USA as well so I won't count them here.
Roughly this sums up to $68'000 or €45'000.
Compared to a new Tesla Roadster (incl. VAT) of €110'000 in Switzerland, I'd say this is a pretty damn sweet deal! :biggrin:
I will be importing myself a Porsche Panamera 4S from the USA for the €65k I save :biggrin:
As far as the service is concerned: I can have a very simple reason to own a US Roadster in Europe. Let's say I been living in the US for the past 2 years driving a Roadster. Now I need to move to Switzerland/Germany for whatever reason (job, family...) and I take my Roadster with me. I need a service and I go the the Tesla guys in Munich. I don't want any warranty to be honored (I have the 3-warranty-contract anyways
I don't think so.
firstly there is no substitute for the Tesla factory warantee.
Secondly all roadsters have a country identity which is embedded in the vehicle. US vehicles will not charge in Europe unless their identity is changed which can only be done by Tesla themselves.
a) How does the car know it's in Europe? GPS? Net frequency? I would love to see this one confirmed (reliably)
b) So what if you move from the US to Europe? There are quite a few US cars on the roads here - driving a US car in Europe is not an exception!
Can you charge a US car in Canada? Mexico? I really don't think so, but if anybody has reliable/verifiable information on this please do post!
a)The roadster probably doesn't know where it is on the planet, but the charging equipment is different. You could rig up an adapter to make it charge, but it will most likely void the warranty.
b) You have to show proof of moving from one country to another when trying to get the title changed. I tried importing a Canadian vehicle to the US, and there are no loopholes. You could title and register it, if you have a connection at the DMV, but if you get in an accident you might get sued, since the vehicles have different safety requirements in each country.
b) You have to show proof of moving from one country to another when trying to get the title changed. I tried importing a Canadian vehicle to the US, and there are no loopholes. You could title and register it, if you have a connection at the DMV, but if you get in an accident you might get sued, since the vehicles have different safety requirements in each country.
Dear Tesla Employee
Thanks for registering at the forum.
Unfortunately your statement is very false.
As false as it gets, actually. :smile:
You can have your Roadster warranty insured and they will take care of your Roadster without Tesla having to honor any warranty.
As I mentioned before, a so called "Reparaturkostenversicherung" costs you approx. $50 bucks/month and runs for any given number of years you choose with basically unlimited mileage.
For example http://www.acs.ch offers such an insurance in Switzerland and I'm very convinced that our Roadster friends in the Netherlands, Germany or the UK can get similar types of insurance in their country.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
Don't be so arrogant. Tesla is an electric car, and that complicates things quite a bit, there are legitimate differences as far as charging goes--gas is gas no matter the country. They are also very low volume.
Eh, not so much. Electricity is electricity and is easily converted. It really shouldn't be a big deal to charge the car. The question is if Tesla wants to make it easy or difficult.
Actually that is probably false. Electrons are actually electrons, while I know at least diesel fuel is different in Norway compared to Spain due to temperature ranges. Premium gasoline in Norway is leadfree 98, while in the US it's leadfree 94-95 if I recall correctly.
Regardless I'm pretty sure Tesla has to abide by the same consumerprotection laws as every other car manufacturer in Europe. That means they have to deal with grey-imports. But as Doug says, Tesla can choose to make that difficult or easy, and k3000 might have to drag Tesla to a European court to prove the point. At the same time as a layman I beleive Tesla will loose that case, both from a PR standpoint and the legal case. If k3000 really want to spend so much resources on that and gamble on it is a different issue of course.
And I might say Tesla did set this one up themselves, they've got what a 30-50% markup for the Euro Roadsters comapred to US models, someone is bound to try it.
Cobos
Guys
Quite fascinating how emotional the posts are in this thread... which is telling me we are on to something here! :biggrin:
Let me summarize:
- Despite all the fairy tales floating around regarding compatibility and plugs, US Roadsters will charge in every country on this planet with your US Home Connector. It's just a matter of a good electrician and a transformator.
- Persons who are not sure whether Tesla Europe will honor their US warranty in Europe can get a warranty insurance contract from their local car insurance company to replace or extend that US warranty.
- Freight companies will deliver US cars hassle free to your front door in Europe for a flat rate. They will deal with customs, insurance, VAT and all the paperwork for you.
- If you import a brandnew Roadster, you will be saving 40% off the European retail price, but you will have to pay your VAT and customs.
- European consumer protection laws are brutal. Car manufacturers selling in the EU have to obey them, no matter if they sell 2 or 2mio. cars a year.
The main question remaining is the homologation procedure.
Does anyone here driving a US spec Roadster in Europe remember which changes had to be made to your car? One member mentioned replacing red LEDs with orange LEDs.
Is there more?
Quite fascinating how emotional the posts are in this thread... which is telling me we are on to something here! :biggrin:
Let me summarize:
- Despite all the fairy tales floating around regarding compatibility and plugs, US Roadsters will charge in every country on this planet with your US Home Connector. It's just a matter of a good electrician and a transformator.
- Persons who are not sure whether Tesla Europe will honor their US warranty in Europe can get a warranty insurance contract from their local car insurance company to replace or extend that US warranty.
- Freight companies will deliver US cars hassle free to your front door in Europe for a flat rate. They will deal with customs, insurance, VAT and all the paperwork for you.
- If you import a brandnew Roadster, you will be saving 40% off the European retail price, but you will have to pay your VAT and customs.
- European consumer protection laws are brutal. Car manufacturers selling in the EU have to obey them, no matter if they sell 2 or 2mio. cars a year.
The main question remaining is the homologation procedure.
Does anyone here driving a US spec Roadster in Europe remember which changes had to be made to your car? One member mentioned replacing red LEDs with orange LEDs.
Is there more?
Quite surprised by the pessimism about US->EU charging on here...
The US 240V supply is going to look like the UK one is all but frequency. Frequency isn't going to be a problem to any modern power supply and I very much doubt they were fitting different PEMs to the early marketing cars / VPs that were over here. Besides, I was under the impression that the cars were pretty much omnivorous when it came to supply. As I said above, if there are restrictions they are artificial. Given that one owner on here is planning a round-the-world trip without Tesla's support, they might want to confirm whether this is true.
There are at least two members here that have experience of using US charging equipment on a European supply (RFMC), one as the user and the other as supplier - maybe they can let us know how that went?
Those with a keen eye might have spotted a familiar sight at the back of this London photograph:
So the charging equipment is not very different, if at all.
The only concern I do have is that if k3000 does take out a 3rd party warranty, then the warranty house might have difficulty in getting something like a new ESS if it was needed. That should be checked very carefully.
The US 240V supply is going to look like the UK one is all but frequency. Frequency isn't going to be a problem to any modern power supply and I very much doubt they were fitting different PEMs to the early marketing cars / VPs that were over here. Besides, I was under the impression that the cars were pretty much omnivorous when it came to supply. As I said above, if there are restrictions they are artificial. Given that one owner on here is planning a round-the-world trip without Tesla's support, they might want to confirm whether this is true.
There are at least two members here that have experience of using US charging equipment on a European supply (RFMC), one as the user and the other as supplier - maybe they can let us know how that went?
Those with a keen eye might have spotted a familiar sight at the back of this London photograph:
So the charging equipment is not very different, if at all.
The only concern I do have is that if k3000 does take out a 3rd party warranty, then the warranty house might have difficulty in getting something like a new ESS if it was needed. That should be checked very carefully.
The title of this thread says: help needed. If you can't help, why do you bother posting?
There's better ways to get rid of your frustration than forum posts. Even in Ohio. Feel free to proof your frustration to the other board members by adding another comment. Thanks.
You are o so very welcome. I will refrain from commenting about your wonderful
location on this fine planet of ours. This is not a personal vendetta of mine. I honestly hope you get a Roadster and enjoy it to its full potential. That being said, I believe that you are setting yourself up for a long and drawn out frustrating fight.I hope this is not the case and best of luck with your future endeavors.
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