Help needed: Importing a US Roadster to Europe (Switzerland)

[k3000]

although i must admit "tax evasion" is a serious sounding term (hi to mr. geithner), this has absolutely nothing to do with tax evasion.

tax evasion is efforts not to pay taxes by illegal means. then there's tax avoidance, which is completely legal. but that's another story.

as a rule of thumb, legal terms probably should be used by lawyers only when the context is right i guess?
now i had to use my brain cells again. ay ay.

 

[qwk]

You know it all, I guess. You win.

 

[tdelta1000]

K3000 has a plan in place that anyone on this forum can follow. Good luck and Godspeed to my fellow Tesla Motors enthusiast.

 

[calif]

Hi K3000.

I'm in a similar situation.

did it actually work out for you the way you described it? Did you save the 30k??

If it did work out, what were the biggest hassles? Already had a warranty case?

thanks for the link, appreciated.

i'm familiar with the content.

I don't know everything about cars, but I'm a lawyer and I do know my taxes, trust me.

the car will have US license plates for a year after the purchase and will be registered in the USA. Thanks for the hint NEWDL. the car will still be registerd in Colorado by the time the refund will be granted.

there's plenty of more ways to save money with this car for me... for example it will have US license plates in Switzerland for a year, that's the maximum allowed for a foreign car before it has to be registered in Switzerland.
After that, the car will be taxed as an import for the current value which will be easily $30'000 less, so that's another 11.6% saved VAT on $30'000. over $3000 straight into my pocket. thanks, swiss government.

plus there's indirect benefits, like I will be paying for the car with my AmEx Centurion. This purchase will give me enought Miles in my Frequent Flyer program to get 2 free tickets to Australia for me and my wife. Another $4000 value. Free vacation in Sydney, thank you AmEx.

Brings down the actual cost of the car down to less than $110k here in Switzerland compared to the $140k retail. I can live with that.

Is it so hard to believe that you can save a lot of money if you use a few of your brain cells every now and then?

 

[k3000]

Yes, of course it worked.
Actually the car turned out to be less than half the price considering the dollar/swissie exchange rate.

Tesla Europe is a rip off.

Why worry about the warranty if you can throw away the first car, buy a second one and still be cheaper off?

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

I had heard that there was an incredible amount of fraud concerning the $7,500 federal income tax write-off.

Considering that the U.S. law states that the tax refund is invalid for vehicles used outside the United States, it sounds to me like licensing a vehicle in the U.S. and using it in Switzerland is equivalent to fraud. I also heard that you have to owe federal income taxes in excess of $7,500 in order to receive $7,500 - they won't just write you a check for nothing. Again, I'm sure there are ways to make this look legitimate by having someone in the U.S. claim that they're actually using the car here, but that's not 100% honest and therefore it's fraud.

Apart from the federal tax writeoff, I still hope the rest of your plans are successful.

 

[k3000]

Thanks, but I don't need hope here since everything already worked out very smoothly.

It's interesting to observe how people start to whine and cry around on the internet as soon as it appears that someone was actually smarter than themselves.
S2000 just gave a perfect demonstration.

Go figure: I'm a lawyer. Don't try to tell a lawyer what fraud is. You are are massively embarassing yourself.

Now that I've addressed your trolling here's the news for you: As long as I'm smart enough to register a vehicle in the US I can have use that vehicle wherever I want to on this planet and I can have my tax rebates nevertheless. Thank you Barry Soetero, you're a good president.

 

[dsm363]

Lawyers never commit fraud, got it. So you're a 'birther' on top of everything else. Welcome to the forum.

Oh, and tax tax credit was started under Bush and continued under Obama.

 

[tennis_trs]

Lawyers never commit fraud, got it...

That's an incredibly offensive statement! I believe the point is that lawyers are much smarter than everyone else and know the law well enough that they can usually make sure not to be convicted of any fraud.

It didn't seem like S2000 was "whine"ing or "cry"ing, especially since it seems like he lives in the USA and drives his Tesla here, so there was no option for him to save the money that might be possible when shipping out of the USA, vs. buying in the destination country.

Oh, and tax tax credit was started under Bush...

Yup, thank you W.!

 

[qwk]

Do you have any proof that you actually exported a roadster from the US?

Your story sounds like pure BS to me.

Thanks, but I don't need hope here since everything already worked out very smoothly.

It's interesting to observe how people start to whine and cry around on the internet as soon as it appears that someone was actually smarter than themselves.
S2000 just gave a perfect demonstration.

Go figure: I'm a lawyer. Don't try to tell a lawyer what fraud is. You are are massively embarassing yourself.

Now that I've addressed your trolling here's the news for you: As long as I'm smart enough to register a vehicle in the US I can have use that vehicle wherever I want to on this planet and I can have my tax rebates nevertheless. Thank you Barry Soetero, you're a good president.

 

[bonnie]

Wow. I found this whole thread offensive for a number of reasons. As I was reading, I was trying to decide what was bothering me the most (coffee is still brewing) ... and realized how no one was talking about the 'gaming of the system'. US tax incentives have a clear purpose. While this whole import scheme may be technically legal (and I'm sure another lawyer might disagree with some posts here), it does not meet the intent of the law.

We talk about asking that EV parking spaces not be prime parking spots, to help with public acceptance of public charging How about we ask our fellow EV owners to comply with the intent of the law? This whole thread will be GREAT fodder for some anti-incentive group to publicize. It hurts all of us.

I'm offended.

 

[bonnie]

To clarify - I'm not offended by the import of any car. It's the gaming of the incentive system (and bragging about it) that totally pisses me off.

 

[Mitrovic]

What a sad, sad thread...

 

[dsm363]

That's an incredibly offensive statement! I believe the point is that lawyers are much smarter than everyone else and know the law well enough that they can usually make sure not to be convicted of any fraud.

Sorry, I didn't mean that to be offensive. Was meant to be a sarcastic statement. I agree with S-2000 Roadster.

Yes, I agree. Sad thread.

 

[Adm]

Come on guys, somebody apparently found a loop hole and used it. Such is life, it happens every day and sometimes at a scale much bigger than this guy.

It's bad taste to flaunt it here on this forum. Why not just shut up and enjoy the car.

I wonder how Tesla will handle service and firmware updates...

 

[tennis_trs]

Sorry, I didn't mean that to be offensive. Was meant to be a sarcastic statement. I agree with S-2000 Roadster...

I liked your sarcasm and was just following your lead. :smile:

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

Thanks, but I don't need hope here since everything already worked out very smoothly.

Of course it worked out smoothly : you lied! That's fraud. I'm not talking about the import process, that's totally legal as you described it (as far as I can tell). What's fraudulent is your defrauding the United States of a tax incentive.

Go figure: I'm a lawyer. Don't try to tell a lawyer what fraud is. You are are massively embarassing yourself.

I do not have to be a lawyer to understand English (or to spell - check yours).

As long as I'm smart enough to register a vehicle in the US I can have use that vehicle wherever I want to on this planet and I can have my tax rebates nevertheless.

I won't quote the tax incentive language again because it's already been quoted in full on this thread, but it clearly states that it is not for cars "used" outside the U.S. Your vehicle is not being used in the U.S., so if you have the $7,500 then you are in violation of the letter of the law.

Just because you're a lawyer who hasn't been caught doesn't mean you aren't guilty of fraud.

 

[qwk]

Everyone is probably getting riled up for nothing. First, nobody in their right mind would have sold a roadster to this guy for $50k almost two years ago when the used prices were close to new.

Second, the US roadsters differ from European models. They have different charging firmware, and many other differences to make the car roadworthy and legal.

Third, Tesla Europe would most likely not honor the US warranty, and service would not be cheap either, assuming they would even do it.

This guy is so full of it it's not even funny. Unless I see proof, this is just a fairytale....

 

[TEG]

I know of some used Roadsters that were bought in the USA, then "gray market" exported to Europe. Not the one mentioned here, but others. Things were modified on them to make them fit the local regulations of the country where they were going. Also there were various certification delays and hassles to get it done, so, at the end of the day, one starts to wonder if it is really worth all the hassle. Also, I don't know what happens if you ever try to bring one in for service.

 

[qwk]

I know of some used Roadsters that were bought in the USA, then "gray market" exported to Europe. Not the one mentioned here, but others. Things were modified on them to make them fit the local regulations of the country where they were going. Also there were various certification delays and hassles to get it done, so, at the end of the day, one starts to wonder if it is really worth all the hassle.

Wasn't this before they were widely available in Europe though? I think the cost savings today are minimal after all of the exporting/changes are made.