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Home charging now stepping down to 24 amps during the charging session

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UPDATE: My electrician came out Wednesday to fix the issue. He looked at it and determined it was definitely heat that caused the wire to fry, but wasn't sure why it happened. Checked the connections and they were good. Everything looked fine except the melted wire. Breaker is proper and fine. Gauge of wire was oversized to begin with, so that wasn't the issue.

To remedy the situation, he pulled through the conduit a complete new set of wires. Actually one casing with all three new wires (positive, negative & ground). He considered it warranty so no charge. He said stuff like this happened all the time at a water district he worked at. He would go in and find this same issue with a huge motor and change it out. It was always heat related to voltage. Same thing happened to many motors over time. That's why he told me he's pretty sure the Tesla Wall Connector is not at fault. Probably some kind of voltage issue similar to his water district.

Since we are not sure what the exact problem was/is, I plan on opening up the wall connector every 3-4 weeks to see if the wires start to degrade over time.

BTW, when I contacted Tesla and set up an appointment, they cancelled it and said they needed to contact their charging support people so they could handle the problem. That was on Tuesday. Still haven't heard back from them.

Lastly, if anyone needs a good electrician in south Orange County, CA, I highly recommend my guy. Knows his stuff well, smart, very honest, super responsive and just a plain good guy. Let me know here and I can email, message or whatever his contact info.
 
Gauge of wire was oversized to begin with, so that wasn't the issue
Not the issue so far as ampacity goes, but the connections are spec'd very carefully wrt to size and torque to provide the largest contact area for lowest resistance.

I think you are on the right track in checking operation periodically. I really do suggest though that you get yourself an IR temperature gun. You will be able to identify a hot connection way sooner than waiting for melted insulation by comparing the positive and negative points.

Disclaimer: I have no particular expertise; I'm just afraid of electric fires.
 
OK, as stated before, I am the electrician that installed the charger. Grab yourself a cup a coffee, this is going to be a long one.

First off, I'd like to stated that my trade isn't rocket science. Like any other job, it's knowing the correct procedures to accomplish a task laid out by the higher-ups to provide a product in line with safety for you and me. The installation isn't any different than an installation that I would provide for someone else. In line with NEC code, the Tesla charger gives different settings for the homeowner to charge with. ie.small house with small service - the charger can be set to charge at a lower ampacity. Large house with a large service or even a second service - you can charge at high ampacity as long as you follow the rules.

This installation, after double checking, follows the rules. It has a 60 amp breaker installed. Check. (I believe I said 50 in my last post, my error) EMT conduit installation. Check. Proper mounting of unit. Check. Proper size wiring, #6. Check. Length/distance of installed charger (for voltage drop) only 40 feet. Check. Proper termination of wires. Check. Proper dial and dip switch settings on charger. Check. Tugged wires to make sure proper seating. Check.Proper voltage on both phases and phase to phase. Check.

What happened? Honestly...I don't know.

Theories:
1) Consistently high or low voltages beyond nominal acceptable tolerances. I don't think that happened here. Although low voltage would cause higher ampacity. But a higher ampacity would still be under the maximum ampacity of the cable. Not really going with this theory.

2) The cable itself. I used a typical #6 awg THHN wire. this insulation is rated at 90 degC. (almost boiling conditions) it has fine stranded wires. Generally speaking a better product than a course stranded wire. Education: wire comes in 2 different types:solid and stranded. solid wire goes from teeny tiny 26ish to 8 gauge. (smaller number is bigger wire) after #8, we move into stranded. you can buy stranded smaller wire, but for this application, the charger, stranded is the only way to/can go. but you have 2 options: fine stranded or course stranded. fine stranded is better than course. However this is the theory of error that I'm going with. Let me explain why:

When striping wire to remove the insulation and expose the conductor, we use wire strippers. Anything bigger than a #6 however we use a knife. I have a set of strippers that are designed to strip stranded wire and up to #6. What can happen and does happen, is that sometimes the strippers leave a cut line into the copper itself. Hence a cut line can occur on a few or all the way around the conductor. If a FINE stranded conductor (all the strands are called conductors as well) is broken or damaged and its on more than one, this could be the cause of the heat. Even if the fine conductor wasn't broken, what can happen is the corona effect. The corona effect is when electricity jumps over a divot on the face of the conductor itself. think of it as a pothole in the road. At the beginning the pot hole is really small. Your tire skips over top of it. But do that enough times, the hole begins to get bigger because the edges around the hole start to weaken and fall away. (I know a bit about this as well, i have a bachelor in civil engineering) same as the corona effect, around the divot becomes burnt and it gets bigger until failure. It also causes heat build up. If there are many divots then there is a conductor failure. This could have been the case in this installation. However upon opening the unit and investigating it, I did not find any broken or missing fine conductors. usually they burn and break at the divot. Additionally, the heat was so extensive that the wire was brittle. Notice though in the pictures, it was only one conductor.

How to fix this. As stated in my first post, I would looked to see if the wire is salvageable. It wasn't. The heat crept down and weakened the conductor further down beyond saving. So I pulled it. I then replaced all the wires with course stranded wire and a solid ground. I made sure to not nick the copper conductor when reinstalling it. Made sure it was tight and seated properly in its lug.

Right now, this heat issue still should not have happened. What I installed there first time should not have done that. Its not any different from the thousand other system installations that I've done. I'll chock this up to human error. Theory 2 is the best I can think of. It shouldn't happen again. If it does, then there has to be something more to it than the installation. Remember, an electrician's job is to bring electricity to the device in a proper manner. If the device is at fault, then it becomes a technicians job, or appliance repairman (just yesterday a client asked me to fix her stove, said it wasn't getting power and wasn't turning on, outlet worked, voltage fine, nothing more i can do, call an appliance guy).

I hope this has helped anyone with the same issue. Its good to share knowledge. good to hear educated experience. everyone can learn from mistakes. including myself.
 
Grab yourself a cup a coffee, this is going to be a long one.
Most excellent post -- THANKS

My first thought was "Sh1t happens at 48 Amps."
My second thought was "Imagine the tolerances required at a Supercharger."

Your point that only one conductor was a problem reinforces my decision to monitor new installations with a temperature gun. It just strikes me as an easy way to find the occasional problem.
 
OK, as stated before, I am the electrician that installed the charger. Grab yourself a cup a coffee, this is going to be a long one.


Right now, this heat issue still should not have happened. What I installed there first time should not have done that. Its not any different from the thousand other system installations that I've done. I'll chock this up to human error. Theory 2 is the best I can think of. It shouldn't happen again. If it does, then there has to be something more to it than the installation. Remember, an electrician's job is to bring electricity to the device in a proper manner. If the device is at fault, then it becomes a technicians job, or appliance repairman (just yesterday a client asked me to fix her stove, said it wasn't getting power and wasn't turning on, outlet worked, voltage fine, nothing more i can do, call an appliance guy).

I hope this has helped anyone with the same issue. Its good to share knowledge. good to hear educated experience. everyone can learn from mistakes. including myself.

Thanks for providing information. If I lived up in OC (I live in Temecula, so really close, lol), I would definitely have you out for electrical work, just on the basis of follow up and follow when an issue is discovered. When an issue is discovered is when you really find out about what a business is like, in how they address it. Stuff happens, some explainable, some not, but how its addressed absolutely matters.

Really nice to read about someone standing behind their work, even when whatever the issue was is not clearly defined.
 
@jjrandorin thank you for your positive comments.

Just a side note: I didn't want to come on to the forum tootin-my-own horn. or become the guy that thinks he knows everything. I don't. there are a lot of people that know more than me. However i am always looking to learn more. But as a background of my education:

Bachelors in Civil Engineering (although it really means nothing unless you use it, and I haven't)
4 year apprenticeship as an electrician
Journeyman status in Alberta and a Red Seal for across Canada
Journeyman status in California, and as of last year a C10 license
Total electrical experience = 18 years

If you would like to reach out to me, by all means. But im not here to sell myself. I am a one man band and i don't advertise. However, I will post my card.
 

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OK, as stated before, I am the electrician that installed the charger. Grab yourself a cup a coffee, this is going to be a long one.

First off, I'd like to stated that my trade isn't rocket science. Like any other job, it's knowing the correct procedures to accomplish a task laid out by the higher-ups to provide a product in line with safety for you and me. The installation isn't any different than an installation that I would provide for someone else. In line with NEC code, the Tesla charger gives different settings for the homeowner to charge with. ie.small house with small service - the charger can be set to charge at a lower ampacity. Large house with a large service or even a second service - you can charge at high ampacity as long as you follow the rules.

This installation, after double checking, follows the rules. It has a 60 amp breaker installed. Check. (I believe I said 50 in my last post, my error) EMT conduit installation. Check. Proper mounting of unit. Check. Proper size wiring, #6. Check. Length/distance of installed charger (for voltage drop) only 40 feet. Check. Proper termination of wires. Check. Proper dial and dip switch settings on charger. Check. Tugged wires to make sure proper seating. Check.Proper voltage on both phases and phase to phase. Check.

What happened? Honestly...I don't know.

Theories:
1) Consistently high or low voltages beyond nominal acceptable tolerances. I don't think that happened here. Although low voltage would cause higher ampacity. But a higher ampacity would still be under the maximum ampacity of the cable. Not really going with this theory.

2) The cable itself. I used a typical #6 awg THHN wire. this insulation is rated at 90 degC. (almost boiling conditions) it has fine stranded wires. Generally speaking a better product than a course stranded wire. Education: wire comes in 2 different types:solid and stranded. solid wire goes from teeny tiny 26ish to 8 gauge. (smaller number is bigger wire) after #8, we move into stranded. you can buy stranded smaller wire, but for this application, the charger, stranded is the only way to/can go. but you have 2 options: fine stranded or course stranded. fine stranded is better than course. However this is the theory of error that I'm going with. Let me explain why:

When striping wire to remove the insulation and expose the conductor, we use wire strippers. Anything bigger than a #6 however we use a knife. I have a set of strippers that are designed to strip stranded wire and up to #6. What can happen and does happen, is that sometimes the strippers leave a cut line into the copper itself. Hence a cut line can occur on a few or all the way around the conductor. If a FINE stranded conductor (all the strands are called conductors as well) is broken or damaged and its on more than one, this could be the cause of the heat. Even if the fine conductor wasn't broken, what can happen is the corona effect. The corona effect is when electricity jumps over a divot on the face of the conductor itself. think of it as a pothole in the road. At the beginning the pot hole is really small. Your tire skips over top of it. But do that enough times, the hole begins to get bigger because the edges around the hole start to weaken and fall away. (I know a bit about this as well, i have a bachelor in civil engineering) same as the corona effect, around the divot becomes burnt and it gets bigger until failure. It also causes heat build up. If there are many divots then there is a conductor failure. This could have been the case in this installation. However upon opening the unit and investigating it, I did not find any broken or missing fine conductors. usually they burn and break at the divot. Additionally, the heat was so extensive that the wire was brittle. Notice though in the pictures, it was only one conductor.

How to fix this. As stated in my first post, I would looked to see if the wire is salvageable. It wasn't. The heat crept down and weakened the conductor further down beyond saving. So I pulled it. I then replaced all the wires with course stranded wire and a solid ground. I made sure to not nick the copper conductor when reinstalling it. Made sure it was tight and seated properly in its lug.

Right now, this heat issue still should not have happened. What I installed there first time should not have done that. Its not any different from the thousand other system installations that I've done. I'll chock this up to human error. Theory 2 is the best I can think of. It shouldn't happen again. If it does, then there has to be something more to it than the installation. Remember, an electrician's job is to bring electricity to the device in a proper manner. If the device is at fault, then it becomes a technicians job, or appliance repairman (just yesterday a client asked me to fix her stove, said it wasn't getting power and wasn't turning on, outlet worked, voltage fine, nothing more i can do, call an appliance guy).

I hope this has helped anyone with the same issue. Its good to share knowledge. good to hear educated experience. everyone can learn from mistakes. including myself.

I'm not an electrician but I pulled the face plate off the charger, everything looks good. No discolorations, looks like the electrician used stranded copper (don't know if it's fine or not). He told me he used copper wiring designed for hot tubs which are also 50 - 60 A.
 
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UPDATE: Got the Torx security drill bit from Amazon today, so was finally able to open up the wall connector to see if I could find anything that looked wrong. Yikes! The insulation around the main black wire is flaking right off and showing some bare wire. Heat, I'm sure, caused this. If you touch it, the insulation is very brittle and just crumbles and falls right off. See three attached pictures.

Question is why? I'm going to call my electrician. And maybe Tesla. In the meantime, I've closed it back up and left the breaker off. It will be the Supercharger, which I've never used in the two years I've owned the car, until this gets figured out and fixed. Glad I caught this before anything serious happened.

Any insights or suggestions are encouraged. I will update further as I know more.

Is that a gen 1 or 2 charger wall unit? My Gen 3 does not look that messy inside.
 
OK, as stated before, I am the electrician that installed the charger. Grab yourself a cup a coffee, this is going to be a long one.

Thanks for adding your comments! I had the exact same thing and was thinking that the connections were not torqued properly and became loose, increasing resistance.

However, I do have a question. The wall connected installation manual requires?/recommends the use of ferrules. I have ferrules on the smaller gauge wires (ground/neutral) but not on the red/black. When installing these were used and the sizes are not large enough for the main wires.

I was thinking about ordering this crimper and these or these large ferrules. It would ensure the connections are solid before screwing down the terminals in the wall connector. Thoughts?
 
Thanks for adding your comments! I had the exact same thing and was thinking that the connections were not torqued properly and became loose, increasing resistance.

However, I do have a question. The wall connected installation manual requires?/recommends the use of ferrules. I have ferrules on the smaller gauge wires (ground/neutral) but not on the red/black. When installing these were used and the sizes are not large enough for the main wires.

I was thinking about ordering this crimper and these or these large ferrules. It would ensure the connections are solid before screwing down the terminals in the wall connector. Thoughts?

I have installed ferrules before. I also have installed ferrules on large motors for a water district. Ferrules are good for wire that are really really thinly strained. What can happen when not used could contribute to what happened here. I should prolly start using them again. However my view on the them on the wire that I original used wasn’t stranded enough. If that makes sense. Through the course of my experience I’ve never had an issue using the wire that I did. On the re-pull I used a larger stranded wire. Which should never have an issue. It’s like saying ur electric stove would have an issue using the same wiring. It just doesn’t happen. U never use ferrules on anything residential. However, I should start switching my mind over. But my lesson I’ve learned is just use a large stranded wire. There is no code that says u should use a fine stranded or course stranded on any application. The water district I worked for, like I mentioned, used a cable that was that was meant for 500amps @480V. It was basically 200 strands of 22 gauge wire. Once u remove the insulation the wire fans out like a palm tree. It was required to use a ferrule to keep the strands together. The fine stranded #6 wire that I originally used maybe had 10 strands of 16 gauge together with a twist. The twist keep them together. Moving forward however, I’m just going to use large stranded wire.
 
Most excellent post -- THANKS

My first thought was "Sh1t happens at 48 Amps."
My second thought was "Imagine the tolerances required at a Supercharger."

Your point that only one conductor was a problem reinforces my decision to monitor new installations with a temperature gun. It just strikes me as an easy way to find the occasional problem.
FYI I did buy a temperature gun and will monitor the temperature every few weeks. First time will be tomorrow right after I charge for about 3 hours. I’ll post if anything seems strange.
 
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FYI I did buy a temperature gun and will monitor the temperature every few weeks. First time will be tomorrow right after I charge for about 3 hours. I’ll post if anything seems strange.
The OCD approach would be to flip the breaker, take off the EVSE face and take multiple readings of wires and connection points.

If it was me I would do as you suggest now, and then ~ yearly.
After all, what is one more thing on my maintenance list ?
 
The OCD approach would be to flip the breaker, take off the EVSE face and take multiple readings of wires and connection points.

If it was me I would do as you suggest now, and then ~ yearly.
After all, what is one more thing on my maintenance list ?
Haha. I am OCD and that's exactly what I planned on doing. Read everything before charging and then read everything immediately after charging...and the breaker will be flipped when I do it. I will probably do this every 2 weeks and stretch out the time to every month. etc. if things look OK.

The kick down to 24 amps happened in just under an hour, so I plan on a three hour charge.
 
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Also might want to check your voltage under load. I’ve noticed that if TWCs detect significantly low voltage, they back off the amps. I’ve seen this at hotels that have the destination TWCs. At home, I can see the voltage drop a few volts (<5) when the AC units cycle on/off.
That might be due to voltage sag from the utility...As EC’s make more of an showing (become more of the total cars on the road), more people will be charging at night, and could cause a general sagging of the utility supplied voltage...especially as each group group of homes are feed collectively by one transformer (5-10).
Curious if you know your wall charger was feed with copper or aluminum conductors?
 
That might be due to voltage sag from the utility...As EC’s make more of an showing (become more of the total cars on the road), more people will be charging at night, and could cause a general sagging of the utility supplied voltage...especially as each group group of homes are feed collectively by one transformer (5-10).
Curious if you know your wall charger was feed with copper or aluminum conductors?
Only if the charging is at the same time as AC use and EV penetration is at least 50%
 
C
That might be due to voltage sag from the utility...As EC’s make more of an showing (become more of the total cars on the road), more people will be charging at night, and could cause a general sagging of the utility supplied voltage...especially as each group group of homes are feed collectively by one transformer (5-10).
Curious if you know your wall charger was feed with copper or aluminum conductors?

Copper. Only uneducated and untrained people use aluminum on residential wiring.