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How much $ to retire and how to fund your lifestyle in retirement

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and she doesn’t look at the price of my road bike, even if I managed to find a good deal online, we accept that each of us spend as much as we want in the things that make us really happy.

If I understand MMM's point correctly, if you have a tradeoff between substantially relinquishing control over how you spend your time and life energy while riding that fancy bike on one side, and having full control of how you spend your life energy without the carbon wheels, you very likely will be better off going for the latter. Even though it doesn't seem like a good choice to you now.
 
It is easy to read your post as either "stocks always go up" or "this is for people who pull in major amounts of income with their work". Otherwise, where would one suddenly come up with an extra $2M? If we assume neither of these two is true, then you're effectively saying keep working and wait for your investment to hit a certain even larger target. Which may or may not ever happen, depending on where the overall market is going and what happens with Tesla specifically. Unless one is an active trader and confident in their ability make money to reinvest, I don't see this being such a rosy clear cut choice. We're here today, if I hit my financial independence number, it's anybody's guess if this is going to improve further or be taken away from me by mr. market. On the flip side though, I think it is much, much more risky to keep money in what would be normally considered safe assets now. Most of the investment info we have is for when there are safe assets available with reasonable yields, which is no longer the case and our government already have said that it plans to continue this for a long while. So keeping a large-ish exposure to Tesla I think is actually adding "safety" to my portfolio.

Like most of us here, I think Tesla is going to be a multi-trillion market cap company, probably in the next five years. So if you are about to hit your retirement target, you are likely to greatly surpass it if you keep working a few more years and stay long TSLA.

Sure, you could retire now and keep a substantial portion of your retirement funds in TSLA, but most people who, for the first time are staring at the prospect of no paycheck for the rest of their lives, will freak out the first time TSLA suddenly retreats 20%. That kind of volatility is an order of magnitude more gut wrenching if it’s your nest egg and you’ve stopped working.
 
Omg, THIS! I'm looking at Knoxville, TN area near the smokey mountains...super cheap homes for like $250-300k. 0 state income taxes...my gosh those tesla winnings will pay dividends in TN!

Do you have any advice or recommendations for decent locations and/or any advice in general on where to live in TN?

Thank you in advance!
I am 100 miles NE of Knoxville, and it is a great place to retire to. Knoxville, in my book, is still too much traffic and noise. So definitely check us out.
 
Like most of us here, I think Tesla is going to be a multi-trillion market cap company, probably in the next five years. So if you are about to hit your retirement target, you are likely to greatly surpass it if you keep working a few more years and stay long TSLA.

Sure, you could retire now and keep a substantial portion of your retirement funds in TSLA, but most people who, for the first time are staring at the prospect of no paycheck for the rest of their lives, will freak out the first time TSLA suddenly retreats 20%. That kind of volatility is an order of magnitude more gut wrenching if it’s your nest egg and you’ve stopped working.

Not sure if I see what your point is then, just the portfolio allocation %? If you freak out like that as a TSLA investor with day job income, you won't make your retirement grade gains. So we're assuming you already passed that filter. TSLA drops 20%, the rest of your portfolio should hold you up. Market drops 20% (or more), it's normal and you would have to have the gut to sit it out anyway. Heck as far as I can see, dollar dropped somewhere close to that in the last few years, are you freaking out yet? Day job can expire any moment as well, freaky isn't it?

Most here thought TSLA will be $500 back in 2017 or some such. I almost lost everything more than once because I was leveraged and shooting for the 10 to 20x gain that I needed for FI grade money, only pure luck and a little of emotional fortitude kept me in the game.
 
Ok, you know we all want to know how you got yourself banned from a fish pond forum. :cool:

Also I'm only about three pages into your pond story but it looks like you already have a little island in the middle of your pond.
In the koi world you are supposed to talk in riddles when a fish sucks ass. And be nice to the clueless "koi expert."
nuff said?
BTW I've been banned from several koi forums throughout the last 20 years. And I am proud of that, and it has me in good standing with many of the best koi breeders...not so much with koi hobbyists and judges.
 
In the koi world you are supposed to talk in riddles when a fish sucks ass. And be nice to the clueless "koi expert."
nuff said?
BTW I've been banned from several koi forums throughout the last 20 years. And I am proud of that, and it has me in good standing with many of the best koi breeders...not so much with koi hobbyists and judges.

Don't fish eat ants? Or is it just ant-eggs?
 
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I am 100 miles NE of Knoxville, and it is a great place to retire to. Knoxville, in my book, is still too much traffic and noise. So definitely check us out.

Hmm, didn't think about all those 18 wheelers and the city traffic of Knoxville...Thanks to good ole TSLA, I've been waiting for some deals on real estate, but TN overall has very attractive prices.

I didn't even bother to look NE of Knoxville, and started exploring and found better homes with more land, which is exactly what I want. We are going down to Seymour, TN for some new deals near the mountains, but will also have to check out NE areas! Thank you sir!
 
I think all your retirement estimates have forgotten the $100k a year on new Tesla products you are going to be spending.

That! And I find that I seem to acquire hobbies that are expensive proportionally to increase of my TSLA holdings. :eek: Things I always wanted to do, but couldn't afford (or more correctly, couldn't justify) previously. My new justification is YOLO, but within reason. This of course will delay the time when I'll be able to quit working, because I'm not selling TSLA for those expenses but using the income. But maybe that's not a bad thing. My wife believes truly retiring too early or even talking about it is "stupid", because you'd have nothing to do all day. Basically don't retire just for the sake of retiring. She'd rather we both keep working (without too much overworking), but then use the extra money we have now to enjoy the life, get the expensive hobbies we couldn't before, travel more and to more exotic places (currently on hold due to COVID obviously).

Sometimes I keep dreaming that I should try to prove her wrong about the whole "you'd have nothing to do all day" thing, but maybe it's ok not to. Not yet. Given my current situation I figure maximum of 5-10 years of working at the level i'm working now, while still enjoying all the extra stuff, and I'll be set.
 
I didnt have much of a saving and two years ago i got a good paying job that let me tuck away 5k or more each month. The down side is no 401k and ira can only hold 6k so most of it is in taxable acct.

My understanding is since $40k is the upper limit for tax free captial gains, along with $12k tax deduction thats $52k single or $104k married that can be pulled out tax free each year. I could live pretty comfortably off that.

I still feel the 4% makes sense (you should at least be able to average more than 4% returns each year). So that means Ill need 25 x $104k = $2.6 million in my account.

So thats my goal for the next 10 to 20 years. Still a way to go. But i think i can get there.
Capital gains tax rules change often, especially if there's a change in presidency. Best to keep an eye on that.
 
Using you guys' 4% rule I could live quite comfortably. Hmm 606 shares x $400= 240,000. That'd be $9,600 (.04 x 240,000= $9,600 annually). So with the $900+/month I can get from Social Security I can live at a higher level than I do now!
$2000 Property taxes
$2600 Car and Home Insurance
$3,900 Mortgage
$4000 Utilities (internet phone etc)
$2400 food
$16,9000
With $3,500 left over for gas and fun.
$20,400 - $16,900= $3500
So a $100/week for play money... Right now I spend less than $20/week.
(looking at those number I figure most of you would have to add a zero to some of them. lol)
But unfortunately I desire to buy a Cybertrck, so I am gonna need another $100k from the stockmarket/TSLA... Since I am around 94% TSLA in my ROTH IRA That should happen before Christmas! (kidding..there ain't no telling what TSLA will be at Christmas. I might have it by Thanksgiving..Halloween?
 
If I understand MMM's point correctly, if you have a tradeoff between substantially relinquishing control over how you spend your time and life energy while riding that fancy bike on one side, and having full control of how you spend your life energy without the carbon wheels, you very likely will be better off going for the latter. Even though it doesn't seem like a good choice to you now.

And the way I look at it, you're very likely better off making the choice that you prefer. I've lived frugally and I'm glad that I did. By some standards my wife and I continue to live frugally relative to our means, but it's also clear that our lifestyle has been expanding over the last 10 years. I like the expanded life-style better than the older lifestyle, even if I've needed to work an extra 5ish years to create it.

But that's also my / our choice, and it's not the right choice for many.

Like most of us here, I think Tesla is going to be a multi-trillion market cap company, probably in the next five years. So if you are about to hit your retirement target, you are likely to greatly surpass it if you keep working a few more years and stay long TSLA.

My only addition here - for me and my household, we've got a number that represents "enough". That doesn't mean that I plan to stop growing the pile after that, but our need to optimize that growth has wained. I do like the pile getting bigger, but I like having my time back to do other things more. But that's our personal choice.

My point here for anybody reading, is there a point where you have "enough"? And what is that?


Sometimes I keep dreaming that I should try to prove her wrong about the whole "you'd have nothing to do all day" thing, but maybe it's ok not to. Not yet. Given my current situation I figure maximum of 5-10 years of working at the level i'm working now, while still enjoying all the extra stuff, and I'll be set.

My father-in-law has this point of view about me retiring (being left with nothing to do all day). And I think it's a reasonable one. My solution - my company provides access, post-retirement, to a program called Encore. The idea is to get new retirees involved in their local non-profit community, start meeting new people in that world, and to start building that new network of people outside of my current network of people at work. I plan to make use of that but I am also looking forward to giving back to the world in this fashion, and in much less than a full time role.

I also have this hypothesis for me, that I like what I do so much that I will do it for free (or a token paycheck). I believe what I do would be valuable to non-profits and I know that very few of them can afford me, but anybody can afford free! My only answer, today, to this hypothesis is that I don't donate my time while I'm working full time as well (so I don't like it that much).

So important considerations, not to be dismissed. I have read too many different observations that retiring when you define your value as a human being in terms of your job, without something new to define oneself is a good way to pass from this world a few years later. This IS something I worry / will find a way to do something about, but am not using to hold back from buying back my time.
 
Using you guys' 4% rule I could live quite comfortably. Hmm 606 shares x $400= 240,000. That'd be $9,600 (.04 x 240,000= $9,600 annually). So with the $900+/month I can get from Social Security I can live at a higher level than I do now!
$2000 Property taxes
$2600 Car and Home Insurance
$3,900 Mortgage
$4000 Utilities (internet phone etc)
$2400 food
$16,9000
With $3,500 left over for gas and fun.
$20,400 - $16,900= $3500
So a $100/week for play money... Right now I spend less than $20/week.
(looking at those number I figure most of you would have to add a zero to some of them. lol)
But unfortunately I desire to buy a Cybertrck, so I am gonna need another $100k from the stockmarket/TSLA... Since I am around 94% TSLA in my ROTH IRA That should happen before Christmas! (kidding..there ain't no telling what TSLA will be at Christmas. I might have it by Thanksgiving..Halloween?

That's awesome. Specifically because you've got something in mind that gets you where you want to be. And emphasizes the point I like to make - we're all where we're at in life, and we've all got an outcome we'd like to create. Whatever that is, it is. And cheers to everyone that creates that outcome.

The only thing I can immediately see that you might want to add to that is medical insurance / expenses. Without that, you are self insured for medical expenses. At some point in life that's gonna be rough not having it.

A friend of mine from work was diagnosed with cancer (recovered). That year of dealing with it, the medical bills were well north of $100k. Yay for medical insurance instead of bankruptcy.

I don't know what Medicare costs, and I've got many years to get there. In the meantime, my own research looks like it's going to be about $1k/month for decent insurance (I like the plans where I'm self insured for the first $6k or so, and then insurance starts helping out). If you're hitting that annual limit, then you're up to $18k/year. This is at least germane for anybody in the US that hasn't yet reached Medicare age.
 
A friend of mine from work was diagnosed with cancer (recovered). That year of dealing with it, the medical bills were well north of $100k. Yay for medical insurance instead of bankruptcy.

I don't know what Medicare costs, and I've got many years to get there. In the meantime, my own research looks like it's going to be about $1k/month for decent insurance (I like the plans where I'm self insured for the first $6k or so, and then insurance starts helping out). If you're hitting that annual limit, then you're up to $18k/year. This is at least germane for anybody in the US that hasn't yet reached Medicare age.

There are other ways to play this as well. Unfortunately options have shrunk with latest health insurance regulation. Basically one would want to have protection for injuries that need to be dealt with in US. For systemic diseases one could make a plan to get treated abroad for cash. Or I guess look for an insurance plan that is not subject to US regulations abroad? Not sure if that exists.
 
I don't know what Medicare costs, and I've got many years to get there. In the meantime, my own research looks like it's going to be about $1k/month for decent insurance (I like the plans where I'm self insured for the first $6k or so, and then insurance starts helping out). If you're hitting that annual limit, then you're up to $18k/year. This is at least germane for anybody in the US that hasn't yet reached Medicare age.

If you're reasonably healthy don't look at Obamacare plans. They are very expensive. I retired last month and am 53. I have two kids in college and my wife as dependents. We are using a United Healthcare Golden Rule plan. Deductible is $7k with a 70/30 split. Premiums for all 4 is around $400 a month.

The Obamacare plans are required to accept pre-existing conditions so they are priced to assume you have health issues. Looking at the same plan we have on Healthcare.gov, we were looking at about $1500-$2000 per month. The United Healthcare plans don't cover pre-existing conditions so if you DO have something going on, you're going to be stuck with the Obamacare plans and you're going to pay dearly for it.
 
There are other ways to play this as well. Unfortunately options have shrunk with latest health insurance regulation. Basically one would want to have protection for injuries that need to be dealt with in US. For systemic diseases one could make a plan to get treated abroad for cash. Or I guess look for an insurance plan that is not subject to US regulations abroad? Not sure if that exists.

Somehow, I expect medical tourism to also be a part of my future :)

I consider the US health care system to be seriously borked. Making medical bills be a huge source of bankruptcy puts everybody that isn't at least a decamillionare at risk of a financially devastating medical situation (at least without medical insurance that will cover those catastrophic medical expenses).

Similar idea - something I read about 20 years ago said that ~everybody, whatever their age, was going to need short term disability at some point in their life. I don't know why, but that resonated with me and we signed up for the short term disability insurance at work at the next opportunity.

Maybe 3 or 5 years later, I had my need arise despite otherwise excellent health. As somebody dependent on my job / paycheck, that short term disability made the difference between 3 or 5 months of 0 income (and that stress), and just a focus on recovering (no particular financial stress).


Anyway, I'll try to stay off of that soapbox. I do agree that there are additional options. I also think of insurance as protection from catastrophic financial events, and I don't consider $6-10K / year in medical expenses to be catastrophic financial events. So I don't want to spend money for insurance for those things.

I also take the highest available deductible on my house and car insurance for the same reason.

Which is yet ANOTHER topic I'll try not to get into any further!
 
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Using you guys' 4% rule I could live quite comfortably. Hmm 606 shares x $400= 240,000. That'd be $9,600 (.04 x 240,000= $9,600 annually). So with the $900+/month I can get from Social Security I can live at a higher level than I do now!
$2000 Property taxes
$2600 Car and Home Insurance
$3,900 Mortgage
$4000 Utilities (internet phone etc)
$2400 food
$16,9000
With $3,500 left over for gas and fun.
$20,400 - $16,900= $3500
So a $100/week for play money... Right now I spend less than $20/week.
(looking at those number I figure most of you would have to add a zero to some of them. lol)

Pretty much. My Property taxes and Mortgage are almost exactly the same as yours. Except per month. :eek: That's what I get for living in NJ.
 
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That's awesome. Specifically because you've got something in mind that gets you where you want to be. And emphasizes the point I like to make - we're all where we're at in life, and we've all got an outcome we'd like to create. Whatever that is, it is. And cheers to everyone that creates that outcome.

The only thing I can immediately see that you might want to add to that is medical insurance / expenses. Without that, you are self insured for medical expenses. At some point in life that's gonna be rough not having it.

A friend of mine from work was diagnosed with cancer (recovered). That year of dealing with it, the medical bills were well north of $100k. Yay for medical insurance instead of bankruptcy.

I don't know what Medicare costs, and I've got many years to get there. In the meantime, my own research looks like it's going to be about $1k/month for decent insurance (I like the plans where I'm self insured for the first $6k or so, and then insurance starts helping out). If you're hitting that annual limit, then you're up to $18k/year. This is at least germane for anybody in the US that hasn't yet reached Medicare age.
The reason I put Social Security at$900 is because I will sign up for the higher tier (not sure they have one but the jargon in commercials means I will check before I have to decide.

OH? and the guy that thought it was odd I would fixate on sharing the actual numbers... I figure I am the foot holding up the body while the other foot is on the first rung in terms of Economic Status.
 
Look up mr. Money Moustache. You probably won't like the answer, but it's a answer. In summary, live in a fairly cheap location, bike everywhere, be outlandishly frugal otherwise. Travel is fine, if you do it in your $10K used small wagon car.

Most purple are very much not ready for this, but probably would be happier, healthier and live quite a but longer if they could pull it off.

It looks like the guy couldn't hold it anymore and gota model 3 ;)

MMM works very hard.
Ignore all the FIRE talk, too much going around.
Look at the numbers, mull things over, decide for yourself.
FIRE is a big turning point, you will have to live with the decision.

Around here, single family rental homes can be had for maybe 100,000, rent for 1000 a month. Do the math for your area.
2M buys 20 homes, monthly income 20K. Add in a reasonable error factor, isn't that possible? Again, do the math for your area.
But this is not true retirement, but it is being your own boss. Taxes, insurance, and transaction fees affect this.

Too much 4% and SP500 talk.
SP500 is a managed fund, perhaps there are others? Perhaps a total stock market, not so managed fund?
4% is simplistic, again, do the research on your own, learn what others do.

We plan on about 5% (and increasing) of portfolio balance each year.